1.1.1 and you.

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.
Sign up

gerstyd

New Member
Bronze
Sep 17, 2007
159
0
0
#1
So, I have apptap on my phone with all sorts of lovely mods, and themes and such, which I am very happy about. When this update comes, should I restore back to the "stock" programs? Anyone think that this will screw up my phone if I try to update with the mods? I don't really give two farks about Apple finding out, I just don't want my phone to be all screwy and try to fix it.:cool:
 

geordisjd

Zealot
Bronze
Jul 1, 2007
2,442
12
38
#2
So, I have apptap on my phone with all sorts of lovely mods, and themes and such, which I am very happy about. When this update comes, should I restore back to the "stock" programs? Anyone think that this will screw up my phone if I try to update with the mods? I don't really give two farks about Apple finding out, I just don't want my phone to be all screwy and try to fix it.:cool:
Most likely, the update will force you to restore and you'll have to mod all over again.
 

Tinman

Evangelist
Gold
Jul 16, 2007
4,334
183
63
Aridzona
#4
So, I have apptap on my phone with all sorts of lovely mods, and themes and such, which I am very happy about. When this update comes, should I restore back to the "stock" programs? Anyone think that this will screw up my phone if I try to update with the mods? I don't really give two farks about Apple finding out, I just don't want my phone to be all screwy and try to fix it.:cool:
Whether you restore before or are forced to by iTunes, you will indeed have to restore. Some people like to restore before starting the update, but I haven't (but I know I will have to restore).

The biggest issue is whether 1.1.1 will lockout 3rd-party apps, such as Installer et al. If it does there will be a lot of people who either will not update, or will wait till 3rd-party apps work again before updating.

I am in the second camp: I will not update if it breaks 3rd-party app installation. Moreover, if the iPhone becomes as locked up as the Touch my days with the iphone--and apple--might be nearing an end. A month ago I was ready to buy my first Mac (well, since the '90s--and that was a businesss purchase). Now I am taking a wait-and-see approach.

Please note that I don't mind if the update breaks 3rd party apps due to new ways of doing things (to put it simply). But if it turns out Apple went out of their way to lock it back down--and I do not mean SIM unlocking, which I don't care about--I will not be a happy puppy.

Part of the reason I feel so strongly is because of what I have seen in 1.1.1, or more accurately, what I have not seen (cut and paste, for crying out loud!). This release will be out--or I assume will be out--about three months since the iPhone's release. It's the first update that does much of anything besides "bug" or "security" fixes. Yet it mostly adds the WiFi iTunes Store, which is something that doesn't benefit me at all.


--
Mike
 

gerstyd

New Member
Bronze
Sep 17, 2007
159
0
0
#5
Tinman,
Please take this as face value, and nothing more. I am not trying to be an ass, or trying to say you suck or that you shouldn't have purchased the phone but....

Why did you buy the iPhone? You knew it didn't have certain things in it, and Apple NEVER promised to update the things it didn't have. If it doesn't come out with cut and paste you are going to ditch your phone and not buy a mac? Or whatever other features that it doesn't have, and never did, nor said it ever would. I am just curious how you can be mad at a company for not giving you something it never said it would give you in the first place. You just speculated that it would happen, and now that it isn't you are angered by it. Apple fulfilled their part of the bargain. they gave you EXACTLY what they said they would. The only thing people can really be upset about are faults in the software/hardware (IE the screen sucks, Safari crashes etc...) Any other "it doesn't have this, it doesn't have that, is your own fault for thinking they would add it for you. I also want to say I don't own an Apple, and never have, so I am not a fan boy. I own a Dell XPS since I am a gamer, and up until recently you couldn't game on Apples.

This other statement doesn't apply to you. I know you don't care about the music store, which is totally cool. BUT People on this forum keep saying that the new update with the music store on it is just another way for Apple to make money...OF COURSE IT IS! EVERYTHING Apple does is to make money. They are a company...a public company at that. Which means they have to answer to investors. They are only here to make money, they are exactly like Microsoft, and if they could get Microsoft's share of the market, they would be tickled pink. The following that MAC has as a superior company to say dell, is amazing to me. people need to understand that Apples are made from the same parts as a dell, probably in the same factory in china, or Mexico or some other third world county. People need to stop fooling themselves, and stop holding Apple is such a higher light than any other company, because thats all they are. A company trying to make their investors happy, and Stevie Poo rich. :laugh2:

My last little rant is a theory....I was thinking about java, and flash the other night and how I would really like to have it on the phone. Then got to thinking of reasons why it doesn't have it. Here is my half arsed (i was not sober at the time) theory. Maybe Apple did not add it because they do not want 1 million people on the edge network watching a ton of flash stuff all at the same time jamming up the lines, and are waiting for stronger network capabilities to add it on. Can you imagine everyone jamming around watching flash movies all at the same time, and the crunch that the towers would feel? I am probably dead wrong, but it was just a theory. Now, let the jabbs at me commence.
 

Tinman

Evangelist
Gold
Jul 16, 2007
4,334
183
63
Aridzona
#6
Tinman,
Please take this as face value, and nothing more. I am not trying to be an ass, or trying to say you suck or that you shouldn't have purchased the phone but....

Why did you buy the iPhone?
Please don't be offended but I stopped reading right there. I could just as easily ask you why you read such threads...



--
Mike
 

Velodog2

Member
Silver
Jul 19, 2007
562
0
16
#7
I have yet to mod and although I plan to, I've been waiting until after the first significant update. I said that if I was disappointed then I would mod, but based on what I've heard, I anticipate disappointment.

Regardless, there should be a fair amount of time between this update and the next, so I'll be able to play for a while in peace.
 

gsxr370

New Member
Apr 12, 2007
86
0
0
#8
I think if Apple really wants to compete with blackberry and palm. They are going have to allow third party apps, themes, different icons, and pretty much full customization. We paid 400-600 for these phones and they try to dictate what we can do with them. Apple doesn't seem to realize that we live in a world where everyone wants to customize everything to there liking. How cool is it to have an iPhone when everyone has one and its exactly like yours.
 

Prelector

Member
Bronze
Sep 6, 2007
151
1
18
#9
So, I have apptap on my phone with all sorts of lovely mods, and themes and such, which I am very happy about. When this update comes, should I restore back to the "stock" programs? Anyone think that this will screw up my phone if I try to update with the mods? I don't really give two farks about Apple finding out, I just don't want my phone to be all screwy and try to fix it.:cool:
Yes, restore FIRST, then begin the update process... I've tried both ways, and trying to directly update a jailbreaked/moded phone was a PAIN. And, as has been mentioned, you'll have to restore anyways, might as well get it out of the way and avoid any hassles.

As to the "rant" bit... I really do NOT get this logic: Apple never promised to update/upgrade your upgradeable device, so why are you bitching? Newsflash, if the device is upgradable, then YES, we expect upgrades! That only makes sense... As to cut n paste specifically: while Apple might not have felt it was necessary, or important, I believe the user community has voiced their dissent LOUDLY on this issue. And since it's only a software change, what's the big deal? To put it in terms you might understand: Adding cut n paste would probably generate at least a few new sales; that means more revenue; and it would be much easier and faster to add cut n paste than to add OTA iTunes...

And not to speak for Mike, but I believe his reticence in purchasing a Mac isn't directly related to the lack of updates for the iPhone, it's due to what that lack suggests as to Apple: their lack of commitment to their owner/user community. If they can't be bothered to add cut n paste to the iPhone, how can I trust them to keep a PC up to date?

Finally, your comparison of Apple to Dell is completely false... Dell is a computer assembly house. While they have a couple of parts manufactured for them (cases), for the most part they buy off the shelf components and assemble them. (As you said, same parts as Apple)

Apple on the other hand, WRITES the OS that resides on their PC. Of COURSE we're going to hold them to a higher standard! You couldn't expect Dell to fix problems in the Windows OS, but you can expect Apple to. Comparing Apple to Microsoft would be a much closer and more fair comparison.

The other reason it's fair to hold Apple to a higher standard is because APPLE MARKETS THEMSELVES THAT WAY! Hell, that's their entire marketing basis.
 

gerstyd

New Member
Bronze
Sep 17, 2007
159
0
0
#10
Other phones lock out 3rd party apps as well. I owned a black jack and I couldn't mod it the way I wanted, so I had to unlock the phone as well. This is not new to Apple. I also payed 600 for the black jack. In fact, I called Cingular at the time, asked for the unlock code, and they wouldn't give it to me, so like my iPhone I had to unlock it.

I think if Apple really wants to compete with blackberry and palm. They are going have to allow third party apps, themes, different icons, and pretty much full customization. We paid 400-600 for these phones and they try to dictate what we can do with them. Apple doesn't seem to realize that we live in a world where everyone wants to customize everything to there liking. How cool is it to have an iPhone when everyone has one and its exactly like yours.
 

gerstyd

New Member
Bronze
Sep 17, 2007
159
0
0
#11
My point about Dell/Apple is parts is parts just like that old fast food commercial, which I forget who it was. But it is true parts is parts and whether you buy a dell Apple HP sony etc all those little capacitors are the same.

As for their advertising that states they should be held at a higher standard, I don't see. What I see when I see an Apple commercial, is buy an Apple, and you will look cool, and be cool. So go to star bucks with you Apple because whats the point of owning an Apple if no one sees you with it. Honestly Prelector you seem like a smart guy (or girl) do you really believe everything Apple says in their marketing? I mean, HP say they make great computers, and Star bucks states they make great coffee. And I know thats bullflop.

As for the community telling Apple to add stuff to the phone, yes they should listen. This is how they would make more money etc. But if it doesn't come out in 1.1.1 then it will come out later. And though its been 3 months or so for this update, who knows they may updated it every day now, or once a week or so forth. there could be a very good reason why, there may not be, but I am sure they are working on it if so many people asked for it. It also may be harder than anyone thinks to do. The way the touch screen works, it could be a HUGE problem to make happen. We just don't know. So don't say that they are not listening just because something doesn't make 1.1.1.





Yes, restore FIRST, then begin the update process... I've tried both ways, and trying to directly update a jailbreaked/moded phone was a PAIN. And, as has been mentioned, you'll have to restore anyways, might as well get it out of the way and avoid any hassles.

As to the "rant" bit... I really do NOT get this logic: Apple never promised to update/upgrade your upgradeable device, so why are you bitching? Newsflash, if the device is upgradable, then YES, we expect upgrades! That only makes sense... As to cut n paste specifically: while Apple might not have felt it was necessary, or important, I believe the user community has voiced their dissent LOUDLY on this issue. And since it's only a software change, what's the big deal? To put it in terms you might understand: Adding cut n paste would probably generate at least a few new sales; that means more revenue; and it would be much easier and faster to add cut n paste than to add OTA iTunes...

And not to speak for Mike, but I believe his reticence in purchasing a Mac isn't directly related to the lack of updates for the iPhone, it's due to what that lack suggests as to Apple: their lack of commitment to their owner/user community. If they can't be bothered to add cut n paste to the iPhone, how can I trust them to keep a PC up to date?

Finally, your comparison of Apple to Dell is completely false... Dell is a computer assembly house. While they have a couple of parts manufactured for them (cases), for the most part they buy off the shelf components and assemble them. (As you said, same parts as Apple)

Apple on the other hand, WRITES the OS that resides on their PC. Of COURSE we're going to hold them to a higher standard! You couldn't expect Dell to fix problems in the Windows OS, but you can expect Apple to. Comparing Apple to Microsoft would be a much closer and more fair comparison.

The other reason it's fair to hold Apple to a higher standard is because APPLE MARKETS THEMSELVES THAT WAY! Hell, that's their entire marketing basis.
 

ciaran00

New Member
Bronze
Jul 21, 2007
242
0
0
#12
gerstyd... in the long line of Apple apologists, no.

If some guy without an SDK can engineer an NES controller to work on an iPhone and play NES games, Apple can add in cut and paste. It's really as simple as that. Justify Apple's reticence however you want (there may be a million reasons why they don't put it in), but the fact that it's a hard thing to program or add in IS NOT ONE OF THOSE REASONS.
 

gerstyd

New Member
Bronze
Sep 17, 2007
159
0
0
#13
Like I said, I don't know what it takes to program a computer/phone to do anything. It was just a guess, and point of none of us know the real reason why. I am sure if it will make them more money, they will add it sometime.

gerstyd... in the long line of Apple apologists, no.

If some guy without an SDK can engineer an NES controller to work on an iPhone and play NES games, Apple can add in cut and paste. It's really as simple as that. Justify Apple's reticence however you want (there may be a million reasons why they don't put it in), but the fact that it's a hard thing to program or add in IS NOT ONE OF THOSE REASONS.
 

ahduke99

New Member
Bronze
Jul 21, 2007
344
0
0
Charleston aka Chucktown, SC
#14
its not that Apple cant do these things .. it's a matter of if they want to take the time and money to do them. if the phone is selling well as it is, why do it from a businesss standpoint? when the sales slow down, they'll release new features that will make the phone more attractive to buyers. if it doesn't slow down, they wont release anything new till iPhone 2 whenever that surfaces.
 

Tinman

Evangelist
Gold
Jul 16, 2007
4,334
183
63
Aridzona
#16
Another item to keep in mind is that Apple will have to provide Tech support for any additional Widgets or features.
Apparently this thread has been hijacked. It wasn't about additional features, it was about 3rd party apps after the 1.1.1 update.


--
Mike
 

gerstyd

New Member
Bronze
Sep 17, 2007
159
0
0
#17
I would say it flowed in this direction. Does it really matter? Should I start another thread complaining about this?:laugh2:

Apparently this thread has been hijacked. It wasn't about additional features, it was about 3rd party apps after the 1.1.1 update.


--
Mike