Aliens and the Unknown

iP5

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Just woke and the whole morning routine so forgive that I've only skimmed so far.

I think something that may have been missed is the issue of time.

That there is/been/will be intelligent life out there is beyond question to me for much of the same reasons stated earlier.

Have they lived long enough to develop the tech to escape their world before the likelihood of their own extinction catches up with them. Does their existence overlap ours temporally.

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Europa

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I'm going with Mac on this one. There might be other micro-organisms out there but I don't think there are any other intelligent beings other than us. Also, why does everybody think that if there are "Aliens" they are smarter/better than us?
Most people don't. They don't want to feel tiny, unimportant, and here without purpose. The alternative, thinking they are being watched over and were created in God's image, is more comforting.

I don't think we are the only intelligent beings in the universe or we were placed here for a purpose. I believe there is microscopic life elsewhere in the universe and we evolved from these forms of life, so it isn't hard for me to fathom other lifeforms that are smarter than we are. I think there are varying degrees them. Some less advanced, some more advanced.
 
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Irish Rose

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It doesn't conflict with my faith so I believe there could be other intelligent life out there.... Maybe I have an extraterrestrial brother or sister out there.....


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iP5

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Great stuff in this thread.

I like the video of the universe. When viewing remember that we are looking at history. The distant object at 13 billion light years is no longer at that position at this point in time.

Actually I read that the current consensus places our known universe at 46 billion light years across even though it's only 13 billion light years old. Yes, intuitively I can understand something slightly over 26 bil but 46 bil is some weird physics I've yet to read up on.

In any case, time is the big limiting factor to intelligent/more intelligent life. Our own solar system is about 4.6bil yo, of which our species has been around for between 250k - 400k years, of which only the last 4k years has any written record. IMO, a requirement for the advancement of technology beyond hunter/gatherer subsistence.

I guess then there's two ways to view this;
  1. wow that it took 4.6bil yrs for our solar system produced it's first species that remotely has a chance at extraterrestrial colonization.
  2. or, it only takes maybe 4000-8000 years for a sufficiently advanced brain with a body of decent dexterity to develop tools for interstellar travel.
 

AdrianCubed

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Great stuff in this thread.

I like the video of the universe. When viewing remember that we are looking at history. The distant object at 13 billion light years is no longer at that position at this point in time.

Actually I read that the current consensus places our known universe at 46 billion light years across even though it's only 13 billion light years old. Yes, intuitively I can understand something slightly over 26 bil but 46 bil is some weird physics I've yet to read up on.

In any case, time is the big limiting factor to intelligent/more intelligent life. Our own solar system is about 4.6bil yo, of which our species has been around for between 250k - 400k years, of which only the last 4k years has any written record. IMO, a requirement for the advancement of technology beyond hunter/gatherer subsistence.

I guess then there's two ways to view this;
  1. wow that it took 4.6bil yrs for our solar system produced it's first species that remotely has a chance at extraterrestrial colonization.
  2. or, it only takes maybe 4000-8000 years for a sufficiently advanced brain with a body of decent dexterity to develop tools for interstellar travel.
The universe is 46billion LY across, but its only 13billion LY old. Now ask yourself how is this possible... that it takes more time to cross the Universe than it is old. I personally think Time is a man made invention to quantify something and "Time" cannot quantify the Universe. Time itself is a massive error (based on my understanding of it all). Say person X is 20, and person Y is 25. Person x stays on Earth, while person Y goes aboard Humanities first interstellar ship. While person X remains 20 on earth, if person Y is now (hypothetically) 500 LY away from Earth is person Y now aged 525? So say person Y returns to earth, Based on time's current ways of working, person X should be long dead and succeeded by 3-4 generations?

I also personally think, (If you have an open mind for all types of possible scenarios regarding Earth) there may have been many iterations and zeniths of Humans (or maybe other species) (Maybe we are "the first" Human type species. What if humans are placed on this planet as a grand experiment to see how far they go, how much they advance, and what they do and create, and then once they reach a certain set date... or a certain level of knowledge the "observer" or "progenitor" picks a number of humans, and then proceeds to cleanse and undo the entire planet. (A little Knowing meets the Matrix minus the solar flare and machines, but an interesting thought none the less).

Sometimes I do get upset that recorded history is only give or take -4,000 years. So what was before that? I find it extremely ignorant to just surmise and say we were all primitive cave men, or even microbes. And I hate how history is almost written via a pseudo Biblical Sense (we can thank the Crusaders/Templar for that).

Anyway an immensely complex species like us with all our atoms, DNA, systems, cells, specializations doesn't organize its entire self to coexist within one being within 4000years or even 8000 years. We are, dare I say too perfect, too specialized for nature to have created us over the many millennia via "hit and miss" trial and error, created but didn't survive... evolve it to survive better etc.

We are simply too complex and too perfectly crafted to be from nature. I personally think we had help, or something engineered us. Its almost like we've been tailor made for the planet. Our immune systems function via its gravity, and so does our skeletal and muscular system. Hence why when Astronauts leave the planet and spend extended periods of time in zero gravity in orbit or off world they come back with atrophy, very weakened immune systems, less bone marrow density, and more radiation exposure. Im not claiming to know nature... but I'm skeptical that she accounted for all these things and made us.
 

acosmichippo

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London... Wow. That's one of the most uninformed, uninspired, rambling posts I've ever read.

Sorry, I just couldn't not say something.
 

(L)

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The universe is 46billion LY across, but its only 13billion LY old. Now ask yourself how is this possible... that it takes more time to cross the Universe than it is old. I personally think Time is a man made invention to quantify something and "Time" cannot quantify the Universe. Time itself is a massive error (based on my understanding of it all). Say person X is 20, and person Y is 25. Person x stays on Earth, while person Y goes aboard Humanities first interstellar ship. While person X remains 20 on earth, if person Y is now (hypothetically) 500 LY away from Earth is person Y now aged 525? So say person Y returns to earth, Based on time's current ways of working, person X should be long dead and succeeded by 3-4 generations?

I also personally think, (If you have an open mind for all types of possible scenarios regarding Earth) there may have been many iterations and zeniths of Humans (or maybe other species) (Maybe we are "the first" Human type species. What if humans are placed on this planet as a grand experiment to see how far they go, how much they advance, and what they do and create, and then once they reach a certain set date... or a certain level of knowledge the "observer" or "progenitor" picks a number of humans, and then proceeds to cleanse and undo the entire planet. (A little Knowing meets the Matrix minus the solar flare and machines, but an interesting thought none the less).

Sometimes I do get upset that recorded history is only give or take -4,000 years. So what was before that? I find it extremely ignorant to just surmise and say we were all primitive cave men, or even microbes. And I hate how history is almost written via a pseudo Biblical Sense (we can thank the Crusaders/Templar for that).

Anyway an immensely complex species like us with all our atoms, DNA, systems, cells, specializations doesn't organize its entire self to coexist within one being within 4000years or even 8000 years. We are, dare I say too perfect, too specialized for nature to have created us over the many millennia via "hit and miss" trial and error, created but didn't survive... evolve it to survive better etc.

We are simply too complex and too perfectly crafted to be from nature. I personally think we had help, or something engineered us. Its almost like we've been tailor made for the planet. Our immune systems function via its gravity, and so does our skeletal and muscular system. Hence why when Astronauts leave the planet and spend extended periods of time in zero gravity in orbit or off world they come back with atrophy, very weakened immune systems, less bone marrow density, and more radiation exposure. Im not claiming to know nature... but I'm skeptical that she accounted for all these things and made us.

Very well said
 

CanadianNemo

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London... Wow. That's one of the most uninformed, uninspired, rambling posts I've ever read.

Sorry, I just couldn't not say something.
Most of it was opinion, so I fail to see how it offended your sensibilities so badly. I thought it was rather "out of the box", which is refreshing, in my opinion.
 

acosmichippo

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Opinion based on zero facts and completely ignoring solid scientific principles like evolution or space and time. I'm not going to type a dissertation about why on my phone... Maybe I will later.
 

CanadianNemo

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Opinion based on zero facts and completely ignoring solid scientific principles like evolution or space and time. I'm not going to type a dissertation about why on my phone... Maybe I will later.
Science has had its fair share of mistakes, so forgive me if I'm not as sold on "solid scientific principles" as you. I know creation to be true. I base that on my own set of facts, which are no more or less legitimate than yours. Everyone forms opinions based on their own set of values, from which they pick and choose "facts" upon which to base their beliefs. Science included.
 

Europa

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Science has had its fair share of mistakes, so forgive me if I'm not as sold on "solid scientific principles" as you. I know creation to be true. I base that on my own set of facts, which are no more or less legitimate than yours. Everyone forms opinions based on their own set of values, from which they pick and choose "facts" upon which to base their beliefs. Science included.
Creationism has not been proven to be factual. These aren't your "own set of facts," they are your beliefs.
 

Bennyboy

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Let the aliens come down and destroy the planet, if that's what it takes to get rid of bieber then let's do it...
 

CanadianNemo

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Creationism has not been proven to be factual. These aren't your "own set of facts," they are your beliefs.
Agree to disagree. That was the point of my post. Call it what you will, it's no less legitimate, nor is yours less legitimate than mine. I took exception to someone's opinion/beliefs/observations being called "uninformed, uninspired and rambling". My understanding of this forum was that we are free to express our opinions, not to simply attack others' opinions with no rebuttals. That's too easy, for what I consider to be a reasonable and intelligent bunch we have here.