Be honest - You expected 3rd Party Apps?

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DRabbit

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Jul 2, 2007
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#1
All this arguing around here, which I admittedly have been part of (LOL) - it amuses me. I think back to iFriday and how happy everyone was (or at least mostly happy).

Yup, of course I agree we are missing some features - and if you haven't read posts from me in the past, well I'm of the thought we're going to start seeing some pretty cool stuff when Leopard is released next month. But I think back to iFriday and I know, at least for me, I didn't buy the phone EXPECTING it.

For the most part, I knew on that day what the phone could and couldn't do. I'm not sure when I became aware that 3rd party apps wouldn't officially be available, but it was very early on in my ownership... and it didn't matter to me. I was happy with my iPhone as it was, and was willing to be patient for software updates from Apple to enhance it's feature-set.

Which has me wondering today... I cannot imagine that ANYONE here actually bought the iPhone EXPECTING that they were going to rely on 3rd party apps. I have to imagine that MOST people, even the geekiest of us, bought the iPhone because it was the newest had-to-have gadget, or because it had a feature-set on it already that was going to give them what they wanted. The hardest of hardcore geeks would OBVIOUSLY have known ahead of time what they were getting and that Apple was not currently offering a SDK for 3rd party application development. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that anyone, especially in THESE forums, was THAT ignorant.

So I rewind to the time when we were all at least somewhat happy with our iPhone, without all the gangsta custom themes, without the illegal ringtones, without a buggy iChat wanna-be, and I wonder how long the bliss would have lasted had this software "hole" been closed from the beginning.

I know for me, since I didn't do even one mod, I'm just as happy today as I was on iFriday. My phone emails, it makes calls, it's a calendar, it gets on the internet, it gives me weather and stock quotes, it lets me text with my family and IM with my husband during our work day. It bluetooth connects to my car and provides music when I work out. It even lets me takes notes in a meeting or fool my boss into thinking I'm still sitting at my home computer working (LOL).

I'm a logical person and a tech nut. Lots of experience with computers, both PC and Mac for work and play. I always like the latest gadgets. I can certainly complain about a device whether the manufacturer is Apple or someone else when I feel it's warranted. But I have to say, mods or not, I still think the iPhone is one of the best little devices to come out in a LONG time.

...it amazes me how things can change, at least in some people's minds, so fast...
 

DRabbit

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Jul 2, 2007
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#4
Short answer: Yes.

You being an apologist for Apple doesn't change that.
Don't know how to reply without sounded rude - honestly... LOL... How you you claim that when from nearly day one Apple said they weren't going to support it?

I don't need to be an apologist for Apple at all. If you're unhappy with the way you chose to spend your money, ebay it. I can't believe you didn't know what you were buying if you're the same geek that researches and downloads every app from Tom-Dick-and-Harry-on-the-net.

Which is why I posted this. It makes no reasonable sense that the ones who are in forums about their cellphone are the same ones saying they are shocked. It was all over the net that Apple wasn't going to allow 3rd party developement, and the warnings about modded phones were all over the net prior to this update. You expected a company like Apple who maintains tight control over their devices to not do so with this device?

Really?
 

Conan

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Jul 19, 2007
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#5
I really could care less if Apple endorses 3rd party apps. I know what I got myself into and I have no regrets. Though 3rd party apps take the phone to a whole new level and I enjoy modding my phone to put them on it, I really don't care if Apple is going to endorse it. If they do, more power to them. If they don't..I will just mod it without Apples consent..simple as that.

P.S no I was not expecting for 3rd party apps
 

patrickj

Genius
Gold
Sep 2, 2007
6,221
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Austin, Tx
ipadinsight.com
#6
I agree with you that the iPhone, as is and untouched, is still a superb device. But ... I do absolutely expect 3rd party apps to be a major part of the iPhone's appeal and success.

Especially on this first generation of it, where there is no 3G connectivity, I don't think anybody can be entirely content with using just web-based apps for many essential tasks, when every time you can't hit WiFi they're likely to crawl along and frustrate you away from using them.

I also agree with many people here and elsewhere who have talked about how it is usually the presense of killer apps, and a rich variety of apps, that will make or break an OS platform. I think it's very clear that an awful lot of people want an awful lot of apps that are not yet (or ever to be) provided by Apple themselves.

Windows Mobile - for all its faults and deficiencies in terms of UI, is a very good mobile OS because of the huge range of useful, powerful, fun etc. apps that are out there for it.

The sooner Apple starts supporting third party development, the more we'll all be able to get out of our iPhones ....
 

DRabbit

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Jul 2, 2007
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#7
Patrick,

While I am a geek at heart and do have a lot of "3rd party apps" on all my computers, I don't necessarily agree that most people want them on their mobile devices... or even their computers.

Of course, this probably gets us into a whole different discussion... but it goes to the reality that MOST people use their computer to about 10% of it's potential. Email, AIM, Web and Word docs... and you've got your average user.

Which, if you can believe even some of that, tells you that the iPhone will have to include some kind of easy AIM app soon. It's the one big thing I think it was missing, though I'm sort of personally "expecting" we'll see it in October or November along with the Leopard release. I say "expecting" because my pleasure with the device certainly doesn't hinge on it... I'm doing AIM on the phone now. iChat would just make it a nicer experience, and more user friendly to the masses.

I suppose the question I should really have asked was "did your happiness with the iPhone hinge on the ability to install 3rd party apps, on the day you bought it?" or "Did you buy it expecting you'd be able to run home and put 3rd party apps on it?"

As much of a geek as I am I never for one second thought I'd consider downloading software onto my iPhone -- unless it was "officially" provided (not necessarily by Apple, but supported stuff). My happiness with the device certainly didn't hinge on it.
 
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bschizz

Guest
#8
It was all over the net that Apple wasn't going to allow 3rd party developement, and the warnings about modded phones were all over the net prior to this update. You expected a company like Apple who maintains tight control over their devices to not do so with this device?

Really?
Yes, I expected (and still expect) 3rd party apps on any cell phone, especially one with the abilities that an iPhone has. Consider that virtually every cellphone on the market that at least has WAP on it can use 3rd party apps.

Did I expect Apple to ENCOURAGE 3rd party apps? No. But Apple has gone beyond discouraging them. Apple has intentionally rendered their own product helpless.

If it was "all over the net" somehow I missed it. I followed the iPhone rumors with interest and somehow did not hear this. In fact, it wasn't until I was trying out an iPhone in an AT&T store a few weeks ago that it became apparent how little customization and modification could be done to it. You can feign shock all you like, but Apple has only recently made clear that they (might/would) be disabling modified iPhones.

I'm not a modder or a hacker, but within 2 minutes of playing with the iPhone, I was already asking things like "What? I can ONLY use Safari?" If it's OSX based, then it should run Mozilla like the OSX based MacBook. If I don't want an icon for stocks, or want a direct icon/shortcut to my Gmail, then I should be able to have it. Every cellphone I've had since 2004 has allowed me to modify my main screen contents using built in options settings.

I think Apple's only choice to recover from this debacle is to either essentially undo this last update, or really step up their own updates. If neither of these happens soon, the fence sitters are just going to hold out for the next new fad phone.
 

DRabbit

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Jul 2, 2007
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#9
Well bschizz, I guess I can buy some of that... except that after playing with the phone and asking your "what?!" questions in shock, you still bought the phone? Why?

While I can understand anticipation that there will be software downloads officially supported and available in the future, I just don't understand buying a device where that expectation becomes required. How long were you willing to give them?

My theory is that Apple will eventually allow 3rd party applications once it is "done" with putting on all it's own software first. From both a technical and businesss standpoint, that makes the most sense to me. My happiness with the device though doesn't hinge on those 3rd party apps, because I only expected the iPhone to do exactly what it was marketed to do... which, just a short time ago, we were all arguing was a lot more than most phones do, even with some of it's shortcomings.
 
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bschizz

Guest
#10
Well bschizz, I guess I can buy some of that... except that after playing with the phone and asking your "what?!" questions in shock, you still bought the phone? Why?
I didn't. I had cash in the pocket right then to make the purchase. But I asked about Mozilla and the ability to change the icons and the AT&T rep just shook her head. I told her that as much as I wanted to like it, the iPhone didn't seem ready for my needs.

I was literally going to buy one right after this update. But Apple's apparent willingness to alienate many of their customers just to milk a few bucks out of the rest has changed my feelings on the iPhone. Apple has some work to do before I jump back off the fence.
 

DRabbit

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Jul 2, 2007
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#11
I didn't. I had cash in the pocket right then to make the purchase. But I asked about Mozilla and the ability to change the icons and the AT&T rep just shook her head. I told her that as much as I wanted to like it, the iPhone didn't seem ready for my needs.

I was literally going to buy one right after this update. But Apple's apparent willingness to alienate many of their customers just to milk a few bucks out of the rest has changed my feelings on the iPhone. Apple has some work to do before I jump back off the fence.
See? If you don't own one I can't argue with you -- you didn't like what it offered so you didn't buy it. I respect your decision :cool:
 

patrickj

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Sep 2, 2007
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#12
Agree totally with your points about *most* people may not want or care about mods and apps, and about people only making use of 10% of what a PC can do etc. I only said there are an awful lot of people around who do want apps Apple is not providing right now.

But ... I agree with something great I read recently (can't recalll source right now) that talked about how the 'masses' may make or break the success of a consumer product, but it is often the 'evangelists' (early adopters, techie geeks, expert sites and mags etc) that go a long way towards educating and pumping up the masses to go get one. And Apple hasn't helped their image with evangelists via this latest update.

I don't fault you at all for loving the iPhone without mods though. It is a great device no matter what.

I just hope and believe that Apple needs to embrace 3rd party apps to make the device all it really can be, and they'll start making - at least initial - steps in that direction soon.

Patrick,

While I am a geek at heart and do have a lot of "3rd party apps" on all my computers, I don't necessarily agree that most people want them on their mobile devices... or even their computers.

Of course, this probably gets us into a whole different discussion... but it goes to the reality that MOST people use their computer to about 10% of it's potential. Email, AIM, Web and Word docs... and you've got your average user.

Which, if you can believe even some of that, tells you that the iPhone will have to include some kind of easy AIM app soon. It's the one big thing I think it was missing, though I'm sort of personally "expecting" we'll see it in October or November along with the Leopard release. I say "expecting" because my pleasure with the device certainly doesn't hinge on it... I'm doing AIM on the phone now. iChat would just make it a nicer experience, and more user friendly to the masses.

I suppose the question I should really have asked was "did your happiness with the iPhone hinge on the ability to install 3rd party apps, on the day you bought it?" or "Did you buy it expecting you'd be able to run home and put 3rd party apps on it?"

As much of a geek as I am I never for one second thought I'd consider downloading software onto my iPhone -- unless it was "officially" provided (not necessarily by Apple, but supported stuff). My happiness with the device certainly didn't hinge on it.
 

snowcrash

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Jul 7, 2007
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#13
Not that i expected them to "support" 3rd party apps but i didn't expect them to hinder it either. When I bought the phone I kind of expected more from "future" updates and Apple in general. Widgets, games, dock/home screen re-order, themes, etc. It doesn't have to be 3rd party. Heck for all I care Apple can come out with them, but things like "tasklist" "customizer" "summerboard" "mobilemoney" "sRBT (if i remember the name correctly)" etc etc etc etc I would have thought Apple would have come out with something like those by now. Its a great device but is lacking in so many ways and its a shame that it took 3rd party apps to really use it to its potential and when things were starting to look good Apple closed it down.

Most if not ALL pda/smartphone type phones already have this installed from the get go. If not there are many 3rd party apps out there that don't get constantly shut down with updates and patches. I really think its a shame Apple is going this route because we have only "touched" on the FULL potential of this device and it can offer so much more. I really feel bad for the people who are using it stock and thinking its the greatest thing ever. It really is night and day once you start customizing it and using programs that are specific to your needs.
 

Sleeper

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Jul 21, 2007
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#16
Don't know how to reply without sounded rude - honestly... LOL... How you you claim that when from nearly day one Apple said they weren't going to support it?
There's a difference between 'not supporting' and 'deliberately breaking'. I explained that in my reply to your ludicrous post in another topic.

I don't need to be an apologist for Apple at all.
But you are.

If you're unhappy with the way you chose to spend your money, ebay it. I can't believe you didn't know what you were buying if you're the same geek that researches and downloads every app from Tom-Dick-and-Harry-on-the-net.
Silly rabbit! I'm British so I don't have an iPhone. I was looking forward to getting one when they came out over here, however given that they've not upgraded it for the European market, it's over priced in comparison to comparable phones and now they've neutered it so you can't even put apps on it I shan't be touching it with a barge pole unless Apple get their act together before November's launch.

Which is why I posted this. It makes no reasonable sense that the ones who are in forums about their cellphone are the same ones saying they are shocked. It was all over the net that Apple wasn't going to allow 3rd party developement, and the warnings about modded phones were all over the net prior to this update. You expected a company like Apple who maintains tight control over their devices to not do so with this device?

Really?
LOL! There is a huge difference between not supporting and deliberately bricking people's phones.
 
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bschizz

Guest
#18
There's a difference between 'not supporting' and 'deliberately breaking'. I explained that in my reply to your ludicrous post in another topic.

.........


LOL! There is a huge difference between not supporting and deliberately bricking people's phones.
Quoted for truth. Nailed that on the head. Shame on Apple for acting like this isn't deliberate; too many people are falling for the act.
 

birkoff

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Jul 30, 2007
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#20
Here's what I expect....I bought a PC 25 years ago, voted
with my dollars...I upgraded to a 10 meg disk and it
cost me $900. Fast forward 25 years and PCs are
dirt cheap, the internet has a ton of services and features,
app software can't really be improved much.

I was given a iPhone for my birthday so I have no expectations.
I luv it. It is far from perfect, nor was my PC 25 years ago.
The same can be said of all the cell phones I bought over the
years.

I don't know if I need a spread sheet app, I'm sure I don't
need a word processor. I just want to hear sounds on the
internet....and I just want it to be a little less proprietary
Apple.

If it isn't? Google will own Apple in 2 years and the Google iPhone
will have all kinds of neat stuff and my iPhone will be in the
drawer with all my other cell phones.