Bill Gates as Dumb as Ballmer When Talking Tablets

Discussion in 'iPad' started by patrickj, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. patrickj

    patrickj Genius
    Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Likes Received:
    445
  2. theorioles33

    theorioles33 Evangelist
    Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Likes Received:
    136
    Yeah, I don't get it. I can do just about anything on my iPad that I can do on my laptop. Well, maybe not burn any CDs or DVDs. :)
     
  3. Ozzie5374

    Ozzie5374 Contributor
    Bronze

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2010
    Likes Received:
    43
    Yeah. Wish I was as dumb as Bill Gates.
     
  4. patrickj

    patrickj Genius
    Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Likes Received:
    445
    I never said Bill Gates is dumb. In fact I said clearly the opposite. I said he is very dumb when talking about the iPad.
     
  5. Tattooed Alex

    Tattooed Alex Genius
    Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Likes Received:
    829
    I think it's a joke to compare the 2 when the Surface isn't even out yet. Let's give it at least a solid month of actual sales, not units shipped because we will know units shipped is bs. Let's not forget without the iPad their wouldn't even be a Surface.
     
  6. iP5

    iP5 Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Likes Received:
    138
    I do understand his (Gates') point though. Look at your storage, take away the apps, media (photos, songs, videos) and don't count anything in the cloud; email, dropbox, calendar, notes, tasks, etc. Now how much have you got left of files that were actually created on the iPad.
    Now apply the same rules to your Mac or PC. I've got tons of files "created" on my PC.

    Sent from my SGS3 using Tapatalk 2
     
  7. theorioles33

    theorioles33 Evangelist
    Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Likes Received:
    136
    I don't know iP5. A bare bones install of an OS doesn't leave you with many options besides email, browsing and basic photo editing. Without apps/software you cant do much with any device.
     
  8. fury

    fury Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Likes Received:
    238
    I quite enjoy taking my photos and creating a journal with iPhoto. Or clipping together several movies with iMovie. Or playing around with music creation/DJ apps like GarageBand and Tabletop. And I've even used Numbers on the iPad to work up a budget for how to save money and buy more toys. I'm preaching to the choir here, but naturally, without the apps or media I have on the iPad, I wouldn't really have anything with which to create on it. So, yes, take away all the photos, videos, music, and apps, and you've got a slick looking UNIX-based paperweight. You can say that for anything. What do you use to create files on a PC if not apps? You don't physically write the 1s and 0s to the disk yourself with a magnet, do you? :p
     
  9. iP5

    iP5 Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Likes Received:
    138
    Sorry, I see my mistake. My point was do you actually create much in the way of files on the tablet.

    A camera has software that creates a media file, you can even modify that file; flip, crop, remove red eye, etc.

    I still don't consider that to be on par with the creative process involved with using illustrator to create an image.

    In a similar manner, web or cloud stored files or in-mobile-app notes and metadata, to me are considerably lighter than say a workday spent composing, word, excel, powerpoint, code, images, media on a fully powered computer, be it Mac, PC or Linux.

    My earlier point then was when doing an audit of the stored data, a tablet relatively has less by way of files composed directly by the user. Applying the same rule to a work PC will leave with a considerable amount of information created by the user.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
     
  10. fury

    fury Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Likes Received:
    238
    Depends on the person, really. Of course on average the tablet is going to have less created data, because the average user anymore just doesn't create. Try applying the filter to the average Facebookian's PC on which he/she does some FarmVille, email, more FarmVille, and then a little web browsing. Then compare the results with a work tablet or a school tablet, and see where the equation goes.

    The modern-day tablet as we think of it now is only a couple years old; I think it's pretty impressive what it can do already, and it's still far from its prime as a creation device. Personally, I've spent more time coding with Diet Coda on my iPad than with Coda or Xcode on my Mac lately, simply because the iPad goes everywhere with me but the Mac is stuck at home. It's not completely standalone-able for coding yet--neither was the Mac, at first. But it's quite a capable machine for me. My Mac mostly plays videos, browses the web, and serves as my gaming PC's external monitor now (when I can get my PC to turn on, anyway...*curses*).

    If history is any indication, the Surface Pro will serve one or two niches just like every other x86 based Tablet PC did in the 20 years before it. And the Surface RT will probably resemble the beginning of the iPad (walled garden, very few productivity apps, the first few being first-party). But at the core, neither will be any better or worse for creative computing than an iPad just because they're descendants of the standard workhorse PC. If anything, they'll have to play some catch-up since developers will need to redo interfaces for metro.

    What it boils down to is that Microsoft has tried this tablet thing a couple times over the last 20 years and failed; until they produce a winner, they really have no room to say their tablets are more fit for duty. I've owned a few halfway decent tablet PCs. But it takes more than cramming a PC into a 10" slab to make a decent tablet.

    I'd be happy to try Microsoft's new tablets out for a while and see how far they've come since those days. Might be interesting to check back and see what people are creating on Windows tablets in 2 years compared to iPads.
     
  11. iP5

    iP5 Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Likes Received:
    138
    Very interesting points.

    I'd say though that the Windows\Mac\Linux box has three modes, that serving a consumptive user, that serving a productive user and that as a server core.

    Agreed, the home\consumer market place is dominated by the first type and for that reason, a quick-on, light weight, simple-ui, stable across software installs, low maintenance, mobile, touch, cool (running temp as well as being trendy) and cheap form factor easily supplants the tablet PC that is the opposite of all these traits. The only advantage offered by the latter (in this category) being that it has full access to the suite of expensive ($30-$1k's) apps designed to produce for the workplace.

    In the other mode though, as a work horse device, the tablet as I've found it plays a niche role primarily as a POS\mobile data entry platform. Your use of the iPad though as a mobile web maintenance dev is a very tiny drop in this productive space, and still I'd challenge how efficient you'd be at constructing a full featured, enterprise service or big brand marketing website from the ground up, from your iPad.

    In the last role, the only other device that I've heard of was the old PS2 modified and clustered to serve as a super computing platform for the military. The iPad definitely does not touch this role.

    ---

    Back to WindowRT. I think Gates statement comes from an expectation that Microsoft must merge the first two spaces before iOS does. The success of iOS has been in that it drove media player technology forward. Starting from an order of magnitude cheaper platform, to increasing functionality as well as increasing TCO. Windows success has been in its consistency and flexability across multiple formats; server, desktop, laptop, ultra-light. It's continued success, rests upon its hope that sufficient computing power can be delivered to the mobile platform for it to merge and flex in the first two spaces, while always meeting the issue of TCO. One requisite would be that applications or app-features from the mainstream Windows space be ported over to the RT space at the price point demanded by mobile. Failing to deliver this last point leaves the door open to iOS/Post-PC.

    The challenge to iOS/Post-PC is that on it's own, it does not create a demand to move high powered computing into the mobile space because it seeks to enslave it's suppliers/partners if not the technology in this category outright. The drive for under the cover power in the mobile space, IMO, has been pushed by Android. Moores-law on SoCs and mobile GPU's, battery tech, low temp tech, profit for the component R&D... iOS didn't push that.
     
  12. fury

    fury Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Likes Received:
    238
    I think Apple pushed it more than most. They surprised RIM in 2007 who believed they couldn't possibly have made such a large screen device with such usable battery life. They surprised a lot of people in 2010 when they made a tablet for just $500 (with a 40+% profit margin). There's a lot more raw horsepower in the iPad 3 than in the Playstation 2 or the Tegra 3, so if someone were so inclined, they certainly could make a supercomputer out of a cluster of iPads. There's 32 gigaflops of potential in the GPU. It takes quite a lot of computing power just to drive the UI that Apple wanted to provide. One of the most fun examples I use when demoing the iPad: spinning 5+ megapixel photos around with two fingers in the photos app. Doing the math to keep up with the fingers and redraw the photo at 60fps is a pretty intensive calculation at 2048x1536.

    But there's more to it than raw horsepower, too. Software is the king of whether a platform performs well at a certain task or not, regardless of horsepower. Apple has been on both sides of the software fence--once, back in the 2000s when the G4 and G5 CPUs were relatively powerful chips in some cases, yet the vast majority of software was still being made for x86 PCs. And now, with tons and tons of software getting made for iPads, there are Android tablets boasting more CPU cores and more gigglebytes, and now another x86 tablet contender appears. I'm excited to see where the momentum goes.

    I might just have to take you up on that and see how it goes. I like a challenge wink2.gif

    Web development is just one of my many hobbies, I'm sure I'm still in the minority doing it on the iPad since Diet Coda only recently came out. I'm not much for enterprise services or big brands, but I've made a few web games/services in the last 9 years (mostly text, graphics just serving as some of the UI dressing) that served tens of thousands of people. At first glance, I can't think of any reason I couldn't create them (or equivalents, anyway) from my iPad now. It would certainly be ideal for optimizing the web app for the iPad itself, since I could preview the UI on the very device on which I'm coding it. On that note, I hope one day Apple blesses us with the ability to create iPhone and iPad apps on the iPad itself. That would be a real killer app.
     
  13. Bennyboy

    Bennyboy Genius
    Platinum

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Likes Received:
    1,756
    I don't know about dumb, but he's definitely one ugly dude.
     
  14. iP5

    iP5 Evangelist
    Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Likes Received:
    138
    I'd definitely credit Apple with pushing suppliers to executing R&D and mass producing high ppi displays. The engineering of course was still executed by the suppliers.

    As for the Apples multi-core SoCs, those are/were designed and built by Samsung and are child products of Samsung's Exynos, which is a response to meeting Android's processing demands. Apple in this area is benefiting vs pushing. I'm guessing many would say that Apple designed the A5 & A5X but I don't give much credit to the 1% effort in slapping the brand etching on the cover.

    iOS in general is very good at delivering its user experience without the need for much raw processing power. I would even say that stifling such R&D goes toward Apple's competitive advantage as I'd concede that it's primary competitor, Android depended heavily on such advancements in order to deliver its user experience.

    There are at least two ways to push the platform wars; lock out your competitor (Apple) or draw your competitor into an expensive specs war (Android's and Window's OEM's). The OEM's have the advantage in the latter route as they have the engineers and fabs.

    Apple had a momentary advantage when contracting to the skillsets in Asia could be done cheaply. That advantage is eroding as the cost of living increases offshore and as the suppliers, holding the true assets look to profit directly from said assets. Apple specifically moving the focus to "it's not about specs" was in direct response to the direction the industry was being lead to. And despite saying it's not about specs the rumors are the next iOS phone will have a 4" or larger screen (despite the ergonomics of 3.5" being perfect), a quad-core LTE SoC (lets see how long battery lasts with that in play).

    What's the old adage that's something like, "watch what he does, not what he states."

    ---

    update: I should have added somewhere, that Apple has the credit of creating the smartphone industry as it is today. RIM and other's were responsible for the previous format but as it looks today, yes, Apple created that demand. Of course it no longer leads in that demand and so it's ability to dictate the technology (patent litigation aside) is reduced. It still leads in the tablet space but tablets are beneficiaries of the tech used in the smartphone space. The tablet market does not drive the technology at least at this point.
     

Share This Page