Hmmm... Apple drops the ball? Again?

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Norwest

New Member
Bronze
Jul 23, 2007
133
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0
#1
I watched the 1 hour video event about the new iMacs with Steve Jobs and it made me want to go out and buy one. So...

I start to research them and find that Apple screwed up the one app that interested me the most ... iMovie 08. Apparently they have many users very pissed off by re-writing the app and naming it 08 while it appears to be a downgrade with less capability than iMovie 06.

Is this a pattern? I'm getting concerned here. Google "iMovie 08 sucks"

Apple is telling people "Buy Final Cut Express". Apple has no equivalent to the consumer versions of programs like Sony Vegas. What the hell do people do on their macs? Edit pictures? PC software has much more varied price points.

I'm not sure Apple has a clue what people actually need, they just kinda do what they want. I hope the iPhone doesn't CONTINUE to fall prey to this mindset. If so I'll be jumping ship around X-Mas with no feature updates.

Why would I ever buy a mac? I have 2 Media Center PC's with XP that are flawless. One runs a pro recording studio and the other (this one) is my Tivo using my kid's xBox 360. Flawless.


And the software programs and features I use in the mid $100 range don't exist on the mac under $300. It's insane.

Apple is good at marketing (like with the iMacs) but it seems to be all flash and little substance for consumers. Pro's? Fine, get a mac. Where is the value for the average home user? In a ripoff $99 yearly .mac sub so you can actully use some of the features in iPhoto?

I hope the iPhone doesn't continue to suffer from that mindset.

Like the '08 version of iWeb having NO ftp capability? ? Sound familiar iPhone users? It does to me.


http://mac360.com/index.php/mac360/comments/1307/

iWeb

i cant get anything to work and lost my i web in the process now my website is in jeoperdy. im returning my ilife it has to be the worst program ive ever bought. i feel cheated.
iWeb
Corrupt domain files (I have back ups) when updating from old...

I could care less about the rest of the issues at this point... It's a good thing that I loaded it on to one of my other towers. Apple made a very bad call on letting this out and it working in this way... It states that this is an upgrade on Apples site... not replacement. Now I'm wondering if they built this on the Beta platform for Leopard?

These are the kind of things that will cause many PC users not to consider Apple. They didn't even put into it the ability to FTP... and if I remember correctly that was one of the main requests for 1.1.2

iMovie
iMovie 08 may be the worst piece of software ever released by Apple. I have the latest Mac Pro, with 3 gb of RAM, plenty of hard drive space, and I've been using iLife for years. This complete re-write of a great program has produced a non-intuitive piece of crap. I've watched the promotional video several times now to try to understand the rationale for this new software and how to use it. As they basically state in the introduction, "one of our employees shot some video and couldn't produce a 5 minute video in 20 minutes so he re-wrote the application... isn't this great!
These kinds of comments are all over. I'll never buy a mac. I just hope they fix what's wrong with the iPhone. The more I look at the overall picture of what they're doing the less I feel confident they will add the features we want to the iPhone.

I hope I'm wrong.

So much for the BS marketing about "we only include what you need so you can get to work". They include stuff to frustrate you and make you want to spend more money to do what they said you'd be able to do out of the box.

End of "nervous iPhone user rant". :)
 

ps49556n

New Member
Silver
Jun 21, 2007
545
1
0
NYC
#2
Listen sir nobody cares whether you buy a mac or use a windows pc...expecially here since this is an iPhone forum....why the hell are you complaining about new Apple products you have not even used?

You say Apple is not sure what people need and they do what they want....that is partly true...apple products are designed first and foremost to be products Steve Jobs would buy himself; he makes the products for himself.

As I already said, nobody cares whether you will buy a mac or more iPhones, it will have no impact on the world of Apple...if you want to complain about iMovie, go over to the macrumors forums.
 

propynyl

New Member
Bronze
Aug 12, 2007
36
0
0
#3
Let the guy have his opinion

Listen sir nobody cares whether you buy a mac or use a windows pc...expecially here since this is an iPhone forum....why the hell are you complaining about new Apple products you have not even used?

You say Apple is not sure what people need and they do what they want....that is partly true...apple products are designed first and foremost to be products Steve Jobs would buy himself; he makes the products for himself.

As I already said, nobody cares whether you will buy a mac or more iPhones, it will have no impact on the world of Apple...if you want to complain about iMovie, go over to the macrumors forums.
I mean, this guy has a right to his opinion. And he is also relating it to the iPhone by saying that if Apple doesn't update it, he would consider ditching it.

I'm a HUGE Mac fan...I've been so since my first Apple IIC, but come on Mac people! Let the man say one or two things negative about the company, let him have his opinion!

-propynyl
 

Tinman

Evangelist
Gold
Jul 16, 2007
4,334
183
63
Aridzona
#5
Listen sir nobody cares whether you buy a mac or use a windows pc...expecially here since this is an iPhone forum....why the hell are you complaining about new Apple products you have not even used?
I think his point, which I believe he is entitled to, was regarding Apple's mindset, and how it might apply to the iPhone.

To some extent I share his fear. For example, if Apple believes we don't need cut-and-paste we likely won't get it, ever. Apparently Apple thinks Macs don't need a two-button mouse, for instance. At least with that you can buy one that does have two buttons, but with the iPhone's currently closed system there is not much chance of getting third-party support for cut-and-paste.

I only used the two-button mouse as an example. This is not the place to debate 1 Vs. 2 button mice.


--
Mike
 

Norwest

New Member
Bronze
Jul 23, 2007
133
0
0
#6
Listen sir nobody cares whether you buy a mac or use a windows pc...expecially here since this is an iPhone forum....why the hell are you complaining about new Apple products you have not even used?
I have every right to state my opinion of Apple's mindset as it relates to my iPhone. If you don't like it... too bad.

Obviously you missed the part of the post that said...

The more I look at the overall picture of what they're doing the less I feel confident they will add the features we want to the iPhone.

I hope I'm wrong.
The new iMacs seem to fit the profile. Nice, pretty, sweet OS... and software programs that are missing some very basic things. Like a web publishing app with no FTP. That feature was requested from the last version of iWeb and it still doesn't exist.

Which makes me think we may not get many of the things we want on the iPhone.
 

ps49556n

New Member
Silver
Jun 21, 2007
545
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NYC
#7
Of course this guy is entitled to his opinion but when I read his OP over and over he just comes off as someone whining and complaining about things he has no first hand experience with. iMovie 08 is not designed to be a hardcore video editing program, clearly Jobs is marketing it as a program that allows consumers to produce high quality movies in short amounts of time, with some new tools and interface. Also consider you are paying $79 for the whole iLife suite which is a steal by any standard.
 

Kolder

New Member
Jul 14, 2007
29
1
0
#10
You do realize Apple is releasing a entirely new OS in a few months. Just wait....

I also have suspicion along with many others that you will see many iPhone updates coincide with this OS update.
 

Norwest

New Member
Bronze
Jul 23, 2007
133
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0
#11
I'm sorry, I thought this was an iPhone forum and not a "let's ***** about everything Apple" forum.

:rolleyes:
Ok.

I'm beginning to have less and less confidence that Apple even gives half a darn about what we want in the iPhone. My opinion. No whining. Okay?

I won't get into the reasons WHY I feel that way since that would be considered whining and the Apple fanboys would jump me. :cool:

Now if this was my OP then someone would ask "WHY"? I would rant about how they screwed people with the so-called iLife 08 "update" then people would smack me for ranting about Apple.

Peace.

Excuse my off-topic rant... won't happen again.
 

gadgetguy

Member
Bronze
Jun 20, 2007
84
1
8
#12
I think his point, which I believe he is entitled to, was regarding Apple's mindset, and how it might apply to the iPhone.

To some extent I share his fear. For example, if Apple believes we don't need cut-and-paste we likely won't get it, ever. Apparently Apple thinks Macs don't need a two-button mouse, for instance. At least with that you can buy one that does have two buttons, but with the iPhone's currently closed system there is not much chance of getting third-party support for cut-and-paste.

I only used the two-button mouse as an example. This is not the place to debate 1 Vs. 2 button mice.


--
Mike
Tinman! You are right on! If Apple doesn`t become more sinsitive to their customers are going to move on! Technology is always on the move in the fast lane. We all know its just a matter of time before someone comes out with a better phone. Lets hope Apple will keep up with future competition to the iPhone & keep all of us happy!
 

tharmsen

New Member
Silver
Jul 5, 2007
873
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#14
I didn't see this posted here but for those who purchased iLife 08 or have a new Mac with iLife 08, they are offering iMovie 06 for free for those who want it.
No way! This couldn't be, after all Apple doesn't care what their consumers think nor do they care about what they want. Apple only exists to feed Steve Job's ego, not to make money.
 

gregneedham

New Member
Bronze
Jul 9, 2007
59
1
0
#15
Your experience may vary, but the new iWeb is great, and it loaded my multi-page website no problem. I use FTP to upload the files to my own domain, again, no problems. Much improvement from the old version. My website on iWeb is 84 mb, so it's not a small site. Works beautifully.

Same with iMovie. Loaded all my clips automatically and I find it a great interface....no step backward for me.

I think you ought to try the programs before you judge. You may not like them, but simply searching the web for "this sucks," it's easy to find negative opinions.

Your analysis of Apple products without trying them makes your whole argument lose validity.
 

Fluke

New Member
Jun 25, 2007
8
0
0
#16
So Apple doesn't listen to their customers? They only make things Steve Jobs wants, and don't give a rats ass about anyone else? Are you people mental or something?

Why in the world do you think the iPhone even exists? Its because Apple's customers begged them for many many years to make a phone. Steve was dead set against it for a long time. So now you have an Apple branded cell phone. And just because it doesn't live up to your expectations right now you brand Apple a company that doesn't listen to their customers. Are you kidding me?

Some people will never be happy. Never. They only see what goes on in their little world, and never look at the big picture. Many people forget the past, and simply see what's right in front of them at this very moment.

The iPhone is less than 2 months old. LESS THAN 2 MONTHS OLD! Apple has already released an update that fixes bugs and security holes. Like it or not, that is the most important thing to get out the door first. Anyone with half a brain knows that Apple will be adding new features and software to the iPhone in the future. Just because you are impatient and can't wait for these features to be as solid as possible before they are released, does not mean Apple doesn't listen to their customers.

I don't know why some people feel they are entitled to everything right at this very moment. I don't know why some people can't show a little patience and wait for the things they want. But I suggest that if you can't wait for Apple to release the features you want in the iPhone, you should sell it and get a Blackberry and download everything you could ever want instantly. Have fun.
 

kdarling

New Member
Bronze
Jun 20, 2007
425
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NJ, NC, CO
#17
The iPhone is less than 2 months old. LESS THAN 2 MONTHS OLD! .
Really? Apple's claim that they've been working on it for years is a lie? Are you saying that the version shown back in January was just a mockup? That what they released to UAT back in April was a prototype? (UAT = User Acceptance Testing for you non-phone-company types.)

Ya can't have it both ways. Either it's been in the works (and should've been debugged) for a while, or it's unfinished and shouldn't have been released yet. Except they had to, because of the double whammy of new competition being released each July, and winter coming where you can't easily answer the phone with gloves on.

Apple has already released an update that fixes bugs and security holes. Like it or not, that is the most important thing to get out the door first. Anyone with half a brain knows that Apple will be adding new features and software to the iPhone in the future.
They only released a security update because they were forced to. "Anyone with half a brain" realizes that there may never be another update unless they are forced to do so. As long as people continue to buy the current model, there's absolutely no monetary compulsion to change a thing. What a sweet deal for Apple, pretty much locking in royalties for two years whether people like the product or not.

The only thing that will force them to update, is disgruntled users telling other potential customers. So far they've coasted off friendly reviews, but that won't last forever.

I think their usual mode of silence about coming updates is going to backfire on them in the mobile phone market. It might even be best for Apple if they spun off their phone section into a different company.
 

Fluke

New Member
Jun 25, 2007
8
0
0
#18
Really? Apple's claim that they've been working on it for years is a lie? Are you saying that the version shown back in January was just a mockup? That what they released to UAT back in April was a prototype? (UAT = User Acceptance Testing for you non-phone-company types.)

Ya can't have it both ways. Either it's been in the works (and should've been debugged) for a while, or it's unfinished and shouldn't have been released yet. Except they had to, because of the double whammy of new competition being released each July, and winter coming where you can't easily answer the phone with gloves on.
Its been in the works for 2 years before the announcement in January, so says Apple. If you've been paying attention inside the Mac user world for the past 4 or 5 years you'd know that Mac users have been asking for an Apple branded phone since at least then. Which means Apple listened.

And how is this iPhone unfinished? Because its not where you want it to be at this moment? Or did Apple say that this was just a beta and they are working on the "real" iPhone as we speak? For many of us, the iPhone is a very solid phone/iPod/internet device. More features and integrations are always welcome, no one is disputing that. But the fact is, more features and integrations will always be needed. There's no such thing as a perfect device.



They only released a security update because they were forced to. "Anyone with half a brain" realizes that there may never be another update unless they are forced to do so. As long as people continue to buy the current model, there's absolutely no monetary compulsion to change a thing. What a sweet deal for Apple, pretty much locking in royalties for two years whether people like the product or not.

The only thing that will force them to update, is disgruntled users telling other potential customers. So far they've coasted off friendly reviews, but that won't last forever.

I think their usual mode of silence about coming updates is going to backfire on them in the mobile phone market. It might even be best for Apple if they spun off their phone section into a different company.
There's much more than disgruntled users that will make Apple release an update. As you said, competition will help that as well.

But really, the iPhone has been on the market for a tad over 6 weeks. How is it that they are dropping the ball on adding features with updates? I mean come on, can't people at least wait until the iPhone is 2 months old before bashing Apple for not releasing updates fast enough?
 

hitz

New Member
Jul 19, 2007
5
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0
#19
Really? Apple's claim that they've been working on it for years is a lie? Are you saying that the version shown back in January was just a mockup? That what they released to UAT back in April was a prototype? (UAT = User Acceptance Testing for you non-phone-company types.)

Ya can't have it both ways. Either it's been in the works (and should've been debugged) for a while, or it's unfinished and shouldn't have been released yet. Except they had to, because of the double whammy of new competition being released each July, and winter coming where you can't easily answer the phone with gloves on.



They only released a security update because they were forced to. "Anyone with half a brain" realizes that there may never be another update unless they are forced to do so. As long as people continue to buy the current model, there's absolutely no monetary compulsion to change a thing. What a sweet deal for Apple, pretty much locking in royalties for two years whether people like the product or not.

The only thing that will force them to update, is disgruntled users telling other potential customers. So far they've coasted off friendly reviews, but that won't last forever.

I think their usual mode of silence about coming updates is going to backfire on them in the mobile phone market. It might even be best for Apple if they spun off their phone section into a different company.
I think you are correct in the way you are seeing this whole iPhone thing. I say this and I would almost consider myself an Apple "fan boy" as people call it. In my house, we have 4 mac computers and 2 iPhones plus a ton of other Apple products.
That being said, YES, I do think Apple is dropping the ball with the iPhone. Some people say :"why not wait for 2 months or so and then complain". Well, because some people have the same fear I have, that if I know how Apple is, they WON'T update the iPhone but will release a newer model or something instead. "If" that were to be the case, I'd be royally ticked off and feel they intentionally screwed people over.
The people that say "don't complain" probably just don't want to accept the fact that they paid $600 for a phone that may not turn out to be a happy ending. So, they don't even want to hear you say it.
It doesn't bother me though.
I think everyone who immediately complains has every right to do so. I mean, come on, this device (the iPhone) costs $600! Apple knows that. So why should any complainers go soft on Apple ? You think Apple is going to say "Well, since we left out several key features, we realize the phone isn't worth $600 so we are going to give you all $300 of your money back" ? Of course not.
Do I think Apple will update the iPhone with more features ? Well, sort of. I think they will add features that are beneficial to Apple. For example, they may add ringtones because they can make money off ringtones. As far as picture messaging, NO. Not much money for Apple in it.
But who knows, they may do something really sick like say "Hey, you can get a ton more features on your iPhone now BUT...you must have Leopard to install them". That way, they at least make money from you upgrading to Leopard.
Again, I'm a HUGE Apple consumer but I am starting to see their mindset on their products.
I definitely enjoy my iPhone and so does my wife BUT, after having it for a couple months now, I don't think it's worth $600...YET!
If it had all the missing features, it may be worth $600 but not as of yet.
Still, it was not so bad that I wanted to return it. BUT, I did consider it during that first week.
The only thing that makes me kind of upset on a whole is that this whole iPhone thing and the new iMovie/iMac ordeal has left me "skeptical" of Apple. I hate having that feeling about a company I buy so much stuff from. I really do.
 

fmcgirt

New Member
Jul 1, 2007
5
0
1
Placitas, NM
#20
I think you are correct in the way you are seeing this whole iPhone thing. I say this and I would almost consider myself an Apple "fan boy" as people call it. In my house, we have 4 mac computers and 2 iPhones plus a ton of other Apple products.
That being said, YES, I do think Apple is dropping the ball with the iPhone. Some people say :"why not wait for 2 months or so and then complain". Well, because some people have the same fear I have, that if I know how Apple is, they WON'T update the iPhone but will release a newer model or something instead. "If" that were to be the case, I'd be royally ticked off and feel they intentionally screwed people over.
The people that say "don't complain" probably just don't want to accept the fact that they paid $600 for a phone that may not turn out to be a happy ending. So, they don't even want to hear you say it.
It doesn't bother me though.
I think everyone who immediately complains has every right to do so. I mean, come on, this device (the iPhone) costs $600! Apple knows that. So why should any complainers go soft on Apple ? You think Apple is going to say "Well, since we left out several key features, we realize the phone isn't worth $600 so we are going to give you all $300 of your money back" ? Of course not.
Do I think Apple will update the iPhone with more features ? Well, sort of. I think they will add features that are beneficial to Apple. For example, they may add ringtones because they can make money off ringtones. As far as picture messaging, NO. Not much money for Apple in it.
But who knows, they may do something really sick like say "Hey, you can get a ton more features on your iPhone now BUT...you must have Leopard to install them". That way, they at least make money from you upgrading to Leopard.
Again, I'm a HUGE Apple consumer but I am starting to see their mindset on their products.
I definitely enjoy my iPhone and so does my wife BUT, after having it for a couple months now, I don't think it's worth $600...YET!
If it had all the missing features, it may be worth $600 but not as of yet.
Still, it was not so bad that I wanted to return it. BUT, I did consider it during that first week.
The only thing that makes me kind of upset on a whole is that this whole iPhone thing and the new iMovie/iMac ordeal has left me "skeptical" of Apple. I hate having that feeling about a company I buy so much stuff from. I really do.
I agree with this posting and I am losing faith daily that Apple will make changes to the iPhone that will make it a usable device for "me" instead of making improvements to their revenue model which is where I believe the major emphasis has been placed so far. (BTW I have been using Macs since the first one in the mid 80s and have always believed them to be superior in many ways to the competition except for the years just prior to the introduction to OSX.) First and foremost I need a reliable cell phone with reception as good as my other phones on Cingular: Nokia N95 and an unlocked T-Mobile Dash - the iPhone does not have this but is erratic and not dependable for that reason. Second I need a phone with some crucial applications which have been usable for several years on my other phones such as Splash ID or Data Wallet - a way to store and password protect important data. This is much more important to me than preventing me from getting a new neat ringtone but obviously not important so far to Apple. Also I need a way to add/sync files that are important to me so that I can have them with me. I need a text editor such as TextEdit that could read and write Word files and of course as others have mentioned cut and paste.

I am not writing this to whine or complain but merely to point out what I need personally for my cell phone and my doubts that the iPhone is headed in that direction and I would hope that as so often happens in these threads that I don't get a reply to "take it back and get something you like". I truly want the iPhone to be usable as a tool and not just some neat toy like it is now for me.

Frank