Let's discuss in store activation

SmartAlx

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Jun 7, 2007
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#1
Okay, so we have to activate (at first) the 3G at AT&T or the Apple store. Why are we upset about this if we have a legitimate SDK that seems to be awesome? Doesn't having an SDK sort of take the wind out of jailbreaking? Apple doesn't charge the developer if they give their app away for free so what's the incentive to create a jailbroken app?
  • Is the SDK really not as awesome as Jobs is claiming?
  • Is there another reason to write apps for jailbroken phones instead of going the official route?
  • Will the jailbreaking community have a harder time unlocking the iPhone? I really don't think the activation thing is going to stop them from unlocking the 3G.
  • What happens when our iPhone craps out and we need to restore?
  • Is this their way of forcing us to extend our contract with AT&T? I'm not looking forward to that. I want 3G but I don't want to restart my contract for another 2 years. I want to be able to "upgrade" to a discounted phone in another year, not two.
  • Remember how people a year ago figured out the workaround to bypass the activation screen and they just bought iPhones to get a landscape wifi iPod without the phone features? Didn't that turn into unlocking? Do you suppose Apple is trying to short circuit that scheme?
What is a bigger threat to Apple do you suppose? jailbreaking or unlocking?
 

Saverino

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#2
Okay, so we have to activate (at first) the 3G at AT&T or the Apple store. Why are we upset about this if we have a legitimate SDK that seems to be awesome? Doesn't having an SDK sort of take the wind out of jailbreaking?

  • Is the SDK really not as awesome as Jobs is claiming?
  • Is there another reason to write apps for jailbroken phones instead of going the official route?
  • Will the jailbreaking community have a harder time unlocking the iPhone? I really don't think the activation thing is going to stop them from unlocking the 3G.
  • What happens when our iPhone craps out and we need to restore?
  • Is this their way of forcing us to extend our contract with AT&T? I'm not looking forward to that. I want 3G but I don't want to restart my contract for another 2 years. I want to be able to "upgrade" to a discounted phone in another year, not two.
  • Remember how people a year ago figured out the workaround to bypass the activation screen and they just bought iPhones to get a landscape wifi iPod without the phone features? Didn't that turn into unlocking? Do you suppose Apple is trying to short circuit that scheme?
What is a bigger threat to Apple do you suppose? jailbreaking or unlocking?
Jailbreaking. Because then people will get their apps for free and they wont buy from developers. If they don't buy from developers, Apple wont get money to run the app store. Unlocking wouldn't be a threat to Apple at all probably because AT&T would be losing profit. Not Apple.
 

SmartAlx

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#3
But Apple doesn't charge for free apps.
 

Saverino

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#4
But Apple doesn't charge for free apps.
Yes, but not all of the apps are free. For the ones that arent, Apple takes 30% of each purchase of it. That 30% goes to running the app store.
 
Jul 17, 2007
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#5
nobody wants to wait in a long as line.... on july 11th, then what happened when they check your credit.
 

steelcut

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#6
There will be no need to unlock or jailbreak the new iPhone. The new iPhone won't be locked to one provider (or what way will Apple manage the "Pay and Go " iPhones in UK and Italy?)

And there is no more need for Installer as there is the Appstore.
As one can see, really attractive apps are costly right ow (hacked) like f....g Kate, Intelliscreen and others. The rest is free or cheap and that won't change with Appstore..

Wait and see...
 

acosmichippo

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#7
There will be no need to unlock or jailbreak the new iPhone. The new iPhone won't be locked to one provider
in the US, ATT will still be the exclusive carrier of the iPhone.

And there is no more need for Installer as there is the Appstore.
As one can see, really attractive apps are costly right ow (hacked) like f....g Kate, Intelliscreen and others. The rest is free or cheap and that won't change with Appstore..

Wait and see...
that remains to be seen. Being that Apple has to approve all apps in the store, AND will take a cut of all apps sold, some developers may not be able to get their apps in the store OR may not WANT their apps in the store.

for example, Slingbox has not yet been accepted as an official developer by Apple, which is COMPLETELY ludicrous from all angles. That could be the single greatest app for the iPhone (3G or v1), but Apple doesn't seem to care if they ever get it rolling.
 

Quake97

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#9
I'm going to respond to the title of this thread. I really hope there isn't a 15-20 minute wait to get the iPhone 3G activated. I would love it if AT&T/Apple takes down your name, requires a credit card and then sends you on your way. If you don't activate the iPhone 3G within a set amount of time, they charge you the difference between the subsidized price and the unsubsidized price. That would still give them the recourse to nail unlockers.

Joe
 

el31415

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#10
I'm going to respond to the title of this thread. I really hope there isn't a 15-20 minute wait to get the iPhone 3G activated. I would love it if AT&T/Apple takes down your name, requires a credit card and then sends you on your way. If you don't activate the iPhone 3G within a set amount of time, they charge you the difference between the subsidized price and the unsubsidized price. That would still give them the recourse to nail unlockers.

Joe
It's like selling it directly to unlocker with a fee.
Haven't you learn yet they don't care about selling you the iPhone
all what they want is to sell you a plan and milk you on the long run
Their goal is not the one time purchase they need constant income
so --> 2 years contract + Apple store +......
 

Quake97

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#11
It's like selling it directly to unlocker with a fee.
Haven't you learn yet they don't care about selling you the iPhone
all what they want is to sell you a plan and milk you on the long run
Their goal is not the one time purchase they need constant income
so --> 2 years contract + Apple store +......
While I understand your logic, wouldn't AT&T prefer the money up front than over the life of the contract? If someone offered be $300 upfront or $10 for 30 months, I'd take the $300 up front.

Joe
 

SmartAlx

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#12
While I understand your logic, wouldn't AT&T prefer the money up front than over the life of the contract? If someone offered be $300 upfront or $10 for 30 months, I'd take the $300 up front.

Joe
No way! Maybe you would prefer it that way, but long term contracts (combined with them loaning money they don't have) are how banks get rich. People who know about money like long term contracts because it gives them a constant revenue stream. People don't like change. Some people would rather stick with their current mobile provider than go through the hassle of changing over to T-Mobile or Verizon. AT&T knows this.

As a businesss model, it's always better to take money over time, especially if it can lead to even more time.
 

acosmichippo

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#13
Ever heared of ebay?
yes i have, but apparently you have not heard of Apple's new Activation policies for the 3g iPhone. they will not let you leave the store without activating and signing a 2-year ATT contract. While this won't make it impossible to unlock, it will make it extremely uneconomical. Additionally, Tmobile's 3G network is incompatible due to the use of different frequencies. For these reasons, 3G iPhone unlocking in the US will not be anywhere near as commonplace as it was for iPhone1.
 

xSoNiCcRaCkErSx

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#14
I waited in line for 17 hours to get the iPhone when it came out. TV crews, cameras, everything was there. When the store opened up it took me over an hour and half before I was out of the store with the phone and I was only 19th in line. Now. That whole entire scenario will play out minus the cameras maybe but now there will be thousands of more people getting the phone at this price. Not to mention how many people will be getting entirely new plans which will take even longer. This will cause all kinds of in store chaos. I understand AT&T's contract to keep people from unlocking the phone and using it on different networks but this will be PURE madness. Anyone getting it the day of, I suggest you take the whole day of to be safe.
 

MikeT77

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#15
No way! Maybe you would prefer it that way, but long term contracts (combined with them loaning money they don't have) are how banks get rich. People who know about money like long term contracts because it gives them a constant revenue stream. People don't like change. Some people would rather stick with their current mobile provider than go through the hassle of changing over to T-Mobile or Verizon. AT&T knows this.

As a businesss model, it's always better to take money over time, especially if it can lead to even more time.
This is totally untrue. Banks do not "get rich" from long term contracts. Banks make money primarily from charging interest on the various types of debt products they sell (personal loans, auto loans, mortgages, lines of credit, etc.). The only reason they make money on these products is the fact that they charge INTEREST on the amount borrowed. If you told me you'd give me $240 today or $10 per month for 24 months, I'd take the $240 right now (assuming there was no interest, as AT&T would have with selling the iPhone at a cheaper price but with $10 more per month in fees). Ever heard of present or future value? You can buy more with $240 today then you can with $240 24 months from now due to price increases in consumer good on the global market. Also, $240 now will make you more money in interest if deposited in the bank the day you receive it because of the compounding of interest. Assuming you put that $240 in the bank and didn't touch it, you earn interest at the end of the month on the $240. Then next month, you earn interest on the original $240 plus the amount added in interest from the previous month. If you received the $240 in installments, at the end of 24 months, you'd make less money in interest.

Does this make sense?
 
Mar 30, 2008
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#16
yes i have, but apparently you have not heard of Apple's new Activation policies for the 3g iPhone. they will not let you leave the store without activating and signing a 2-year ATT contract. While this won't make it impossible to unlock, it will make it extremely uneconomical. Additionally, Tmobile's 3G network is incompatible due to the use of different frequencies. For these reasons, 3G iPhone unlocking in the US will not be anywhere near as commonplace as it was for iPhone1.
I...Guess thats a...good thing, right?:eek:
 

styfle

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Mar 31, 2008
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#18
didn't read the whole thread but to touch on the "not charge the developer if they give the app for free"

i think steve meant that they wont be charged the 30% since 30% of $0 = 0
but to become a developer you have to pay $100 (if i remember correctly)
so people that made a simple app and want to give it away may not want to pay $100

PS i could be completely wrong but thats the way i understand it
 

guest 5

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This is totally untrue. Banks do not "get rich" from long term contracts. Banks make money primarily from charging interest on the various types of debt products they sell (personal loans, auto loans, mortgages, lines of credit, etc.). The only reason they make money on these products is the fact that they charge INTEREST on the amount borrowed. If you told me you'd give me $240 today or $10 per month for 24 months, I'd take the $240 right now (assuming there was no interest, as AT&T would have with selling the iPhone at a cheaper price but with $10 more per month in fees). Ever heard of present or future value? You can buy more with $240 today then you can with $240 24 months from now due to price increases in consumer good on the global market. Also, $240 now will make you more money in interest if deposited in the bank the day you receive it because of the compounding of interest. Assuming you put that $240 in the bank and didn't touch it, you earn interest at the end of the month on the $240. Then next month, you earn interest on the original $240 plus the amount added in interest from the previous month. If you received the $240 in installments, at the end of 24 months, you'd make less money in interest.

Does this make sense?

It all makes perfect sense, MikeT77, but you are not understanding something:

ATT would not be making their stockholders happy if they did not lock people into contracts. They could sell the iPhone 3G at full retail without a contract, but that would not guarantee them anything more than a 1-time sale and the possibility of that person leaving to another carrier. So, they subsidize the phone, giving a lot more people access to the phone, which brings in more money. One thing you don't seem to realize is that the average consumer will not or can not spend $600 to get an iPhone, but will be a money maker for the company over the course of the contract. Data/Smartphone customers are even higher profit margin for the carrier, because as you've seen, ATT just increased the data rate by $10. so, if 1 Million people buy the new iPhone and it costs ATT $200 per iPhone to subsidize and brings in $1 Million per month in extra revenue (besides the revenue for the whole plan, which is also mostly gravy) then just in extra revenue they'll bring in $120 Million and have spent $200 Million. Just in year 1 and that is only extra revenue, not counting the new customers in there and the current customers in there bringing in a lot more revenue. Believe me, they will not lose out on this deal at all. They are making a killing off this deal.