Low light performance still really noisy

ZR_Yancy

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#1
I know Apple increased the pixel sensor size for improved low light performance but I'm disappointed. It's very noisy.

Stock camera

e2egy4eg.jpg



645Pro app

y2ebarej.jpg


What's up with that?

Anybody else experiencing a lot of noise in low light photos with the stock camera?
 

Bennyboy

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#2
Is this with flash on or off?
 

Lon

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#4
Could anyone else really tell the difference between those two photos!


Sent Using iCafe App
 

Bennyboy

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#5
Just curious. I'd think if you gonna see a difference it would be on a close up, far away shots are hard to come out decent unless you use apps, like in your case 645 pro which is less noisier. Another is averagecampro which I'm sure you've heard of. Try with a tripod.
 

Bennyboy

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#6
Could anyone else really tell the difference between those two photos!


Sent Using iCafe App
If you Zoom in on both the 645 pro shot is much better.
 

shutter13

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#8
It looks to me like there has been some noise reduction applied to the second photo. As the hardware is the same for both pics the RAW data is the same for both pics. One program adds noise reduction, which is NOT better low light performance. I can make the 1st pic look just as good as the second in about 10 seconds in PS. If you want to compare...use images from the stock camera on the 5 vs 5s. That will tell you if they actually improved or not. The exif was stripped from the images, I would be interested to see what iso was chosen by the phone for this scene and if it is the same for both images.
 

ZR_Yancy

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#9
It looks to me like there has been some noise reduction applied to the second photo. As the hardware is the same for both pics the RAW data is the same for both pics. One program adds noise reduction, which is NOT better low light performance. I can make the 1st pic look just as good as the second in about 10 seconds in PS. If you want to compare...use images from the stock camera on the 5 vs 5s. That will tell you if they actually improved or not. The exif was stripped from the images, I would be interested to see what iso was chosen by the phone for this scene and if it is the same for both images.
iPhone 5s
6juo.jpg

Exif data:
ApertureValue: 2.275007124536905
BrightnessValue: -1.486972998578873
ColorSpace: sRGB
ComponentsConfiguration: YCbCr
DateTimeDigitized: 2013:09:28 12:54:17
DateTimeOriginal: 2013:09:28 12:54:17
ExifVersion: 2.2.1
ExposureMode: Auto
ExposureProgram: Normal
ExposureTime: 0.06666666666666667
FNumber: 2.2
Flash: No Flash
FlashPixVersion: 1.0
FocalLenIn35mmFilm: 30
FocalLength: 4.12
ISOSpeedRatings: 640
LensMake: Apple
LensModel: iPhone 5s back camera 4.12mm f/2.2
LensSpecification: 4.12,4.12,2.2,2.2
MeteringMode: Spot
PixelXDimension: 3264
PixelYDimension: 2448
SceneCaptureType: Standard
SceneType: Directly Photographed
SensingMethod: One-chip color area
ShutterSpeedValue: 3.907099697885196
SubsecTimeDigitized: 854
SubsecTimeOriginal: 854
WhiteBalance: Auto
Altitude: 21.75353773584906m
AltitudeRef: Above sea level
DateStamp: 2013:09:28
TimeStamp: 16:54:17
(file) DateTime: 2013:09:28 12:54:17
Make: Apple
Model: iPhone 5s
Orientation: Up
ResolutionUnit: Inches
Software: 7.0.2
XResolution: 72
YResolution: 72
PixelWidth: 3264
PixelHeight: 2448
FileSize: 1.95956 MB


iPhone 5
3hml.jpg

Exif data:
ApertureValue: 2.52606882168926
BrightnessValue: -1.634360374414977
ColorSpace: sRGB
ComponentsConfiguration: YCbCr
DateTimeDigitized: 2013:09:28 12:54:11
DateTimeOriginal: 2013:09:28 12:54:11
ExifVersion: 2.2.1
ExposureMode: Auto
ExposureProgram: Normal
ExposureTime: 0.06666666666666667
FNumber: 2.4
Flash: Off, Did not fire
FlashPixVersion: 1.0
FocalLenIn35mmFilm: 33
FocalLength: 4.12
ISOSpeedRatings: 800
LensMake: Apple
LensModel: iPhone 5 back camera 4.12mm f/2.4
LensSpecification: 4.12,4.12,2.4,2.4
MeteringMode: Spot
PixelXDimension: 3264
PixelYDimension: 2448
SceneCaptureType: Standard
SceneType: Directly Photographed
SensingMethod: One-chip color area
ShutterSpeedValue: 3.906905055487053
SubsecTimeDigitized: 795
SubsecTimeOriginal: 795
WhiteBalance: Auto
Altitude: 22.52230483271375m
AltitudeRef: Above sea level
DateStamp: 2013:09:28
TimeStamp: 16:54:11
(file) DateTime: 2013:09:28 12:54:11
Make: Apple
Model: iPhone 5
Orientation: Down
ResolutionUnit: Inches
Software: 7.0.2
XResolution: 72
YResolution: 72
PixelWidth: 3264
PixelHeight: 2448
FileSize: 2.13086 MB


The iPhone 5s image seems to be brighter possibly due to a bigger sensor but there is still a lot of noise.


Here's one taken with 645Pro app with night shot enabled on my iPhone 5s.

6wms.jpg

Exif data:
ApertureValue: 2.275007206687806
BrightnessValue: -1.629329880220136
DateTimeDigitized: 2013:09:28 12:54:44
DateTimeOriginal: 2013:09:28 12:54:44
DigitalZoomRatio: 1
ExposureMode: Auto
ExposureProgram: Normal
ExposureTime: 0.1428571428571428
FNumber: 2.2
Flash: No Flash
FocalLenIn35mmFilm: 30
FocalLength: 4.12
ISOSpeedRatings: 320
LensMake: Apple
LensModel: iPhone 5s back camera 4.12mm f/2.2
LensSpecification: 4.12,4.12,2.2,2.2
MeteringMode: Pattern
PixelXDimension: 3264
PixelYDimension: 2448
SceneType: Directly Photographed
SensingMethod: One-chip color area
ShutterSpeedValue: 2.819566960705694
WhiteBalance: Auto
Byline:
DateCreated: 20130928
DigitalCreationDate: 20130928
DigitalCreationTime: 125444
TimeCreated: 125444
Compression: 5
Make: Jag.gr
Model: 645 PRO for iPhone
Orientation: Up
PhotometricInterpretation: RGB
ResolutionUnit: Inches
Software: 3.12, unprocessed
XResolution: 300
YResolution: 300
Altitude: 21.94827076559267m
AltitudeRef: Above sea level
PixelWidth: 3264
PixelHeight: 2448
FileSize: 6.54082 MB

The ISO on the 645Pro app is less than the iP5s and iP5 which results in less noise. Exposure time was just a tiny bit higher on the 645Pro app than both iP5s and iP5 stock camera app to compensate for the lower ISO. Noise level didn't really make a noticeable improvement on the iP5s. I still love my iP5s but just expecting better low light performance due to improved hardware. I guess software plays a big part in that as well.
 

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shutter13

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#10
One thing I notice right off the bat is that the 5S uses a lower iso value than the 5 ISO 640 vs ISO 800, which accounts for a slightly better low light performance, and the 5S 645Pro image has an even lower iso value (ISO 320). Which accounts for your lower noise, but the lower ISO the slower the shutter speed which will mean more blur in low light situations.

I'm just guessing, whomever it is, at Apple, that is responsible for the software that determines the proper exposure, has built in a preference of higher shutter speeds over ISO. The old adage is, I would rather have a noisy sharp image, than a non-noisy blurry image.

Also FWIW, with the 1/3 stop difference in ISO between the 5 and the 5S, I would say the difference in signal to noise ratio is pretty negligible, judging by the images you posted. Up the 5S image to ISO 800 and I would imagine the noise would be about the same in both. They may have made the sensor larger, but at the size that fits in a cellphone the difference would most likely not be noticeable to mere mortals. I'm sure a computer analysis would prove that the 5S does perform better, but in real world application with human eyes viewing....they would appear the same.