No copy and paste? Here's why...

psylichon

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#1
I read an interesting editorial tonight:

http://daringfireball.net/2007/08/clipboard_and_arrows

It basically describes the methods that Apple uses to force "its view of how things should be" upon its users... along with historical examples. It's how I've always felt using the iPhone (especially re: MMS vs. Email), and it's the reason I have faith that its "shortcomings" will be addressed at some point in the future.

Just thought it was an interest perspective...
 

Hawk

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#2
Good Article, and it does put some things into perspective, but Copy/paste is still needed. Not desperately, but when actually out and about and the iPhone is your only access to the internet, and you need to look up something or copy info from one app to another because you NEED to get some info, then not having copy paste is a HUGE pain in the rear.
 

psylichon

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#3
For the record, I completely agree. I'm thrilled with the CnP rumors for the next firmware. But that's not the point, nor do I want this to become every other CnP thread on this site.

But thanks for your input... I know you know what I'm saying. :)
 

acosmichippo

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#4
interesting points he makes... hadn't thought of it that way.
 

psylichon

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#5
I think Apple has a bit of a history with "not seeing the trees for the forest" syndrome. They're often thinking so "big picture" that little things like cut-and-paste seem unnecessary at the time. But upon hindsight, they realize they can't fully cover all the bases that CnP does with their UI. But you have to admit, they did pretty well considering!
 

acosmichippo

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#6
it would seem they did so well because of the lack of C&P... not in spite of it. It made them design a bunch of helpful shortcuts, which is what makes the apps on the iPhone work so well with each other.

Problem comes in the small percentage of times when there IS no shortcut.
 

jjvaldez

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#8
this is a good article, it is interesting to see comparisons... makes me think back as to how confused i was when i got my mac with only one button on the mouse...
 

joe

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#9
this is a good article, it is interesting to see comparisons... makes me think back as to how confused i was when i got my mac with only one button on the mouse...
That struck me as really funny. I went from DOS to Mac in the 80's so the idea of using a mouse at all was weird. You feel like an idiot the first time trying to move the mouse around. :laugh2:
 

acosmichippo

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#10
i reckon mice will shortly be a thing of the past...
 

Lincoln

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#11
This a well thought out article; he makes several good points.

And it makes sense; what isn't already there only has one way to go; to come. I expect to see every one of the features requested implemented. Just not immediately, and not all at one time.

Before we made the switch to Macs, our computers were mouse-less. And I was used to that. Using a mouse was hard and annoying. But I got used to it. And now, typing is the only thing I use the keyboard for. No shortcut keys, no hot keys, only the mouse.

I use the Mighty Mouse that comes with the Macs; which is, in my opinion, the easiest mouse to use. It has laser tracking that does not suck, unlike several other mouses with lasers, and only 4 buttons; two on the sides for Expose and Dashboard, a click, and a scroll wheel.

- John
 

Duke

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#12
Thanks for posting. It was informative to me as I just got my iPhone a week ago and I am try to learn how to use it. Not being able to cut and paste is a bummer :(
 

gerstyd

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#13
holy crap I am in idiot. I just learned this today, never even looking at the "share button" God, I will sit in the box and feel shame.

You don’t copy a URL from MobileSafari, switch to Mail, and paste it into a message; you tap the URL, then click the Share button that appears. (Which button really should be labeled “Email”, unless and until it offers sharing options other than sending an email.)
 

scandalex

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#14
That really was one of the most interesting and intriguing articles I've read in a while. It truly embraces Apples concept of "Think Different!"

Thanks Psy for posting that.
 

Sleeper

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#15
Meh, his article reads like a load of apologetic nonsense and makes about as much sense as Aquinas' writings.

In essense he is arguing that the iPhone lacks this basic feature because it's good for us which is, of course, utter drivel. It's just a lazy omission like no MMS or multiple SMS groups. One hopes Apple will correct this.

What I did find interesting was this:

"I’ve never been one to yammer about Windows being a “rip-off” of the Mac, but insofar as the fundamentals of selecting text and invoking clipboard commands, the “Windows way” is the Mac way that debuted in 1984.
"

Microsoft did indeed rip off the mouse based GUI and other elements of Apple's OS. Problem is they did it better than Apple which is one of the reasons why MS based PCs dominate the businesss - and, indeed, personal - computing world. Will Apple make the same mistake again with the iPhone when other companies rip off its excellent interface and marry it to feature sets and contracts that people actually want?

Time will tell.
 

scandalex

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Sleeper, its very possible. Yet in the bigger scheme of things, if this were to happen to Apple, they would only turn it around eventually and come out with another jaw-dropping product with loads of eye candy that others will once again try to copy.
 

mshaw1515

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#17
Same reason we don't have drop down menus or scrollbars. They think they're too MSFT. Scrolling through contacts or a long web site is ridiculously tedious. And backing up three menus to change email accounts instead of a quick drop down menu - ridiculous.

Copy/Paste - Touch to position cursor - quick double tap starts highlighting (or allows you to drag a box around items you want to copy). Lifting your finger of the screen pops up - oh no - a menu.

Scroll Bars won't take up screen realestate because they would only appear when you wanted them - just tap and hold on the right edge of the screen and they appear - and disappear if you don't use them. Duh!


I still love the phone - but I could do without Jobs' political statements...
 

PhilipJohn

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#18
I'm not inclined to go along with the thinking that they left out copy and paste to solve easier methods of sending web links and pictures. Every smart phone I ever had, had that option along with copy and paste. That's nothing new at all.
 

acosmichippo

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#19
Meh, his article reads like a load of apologetic nonsense and makes about as much sense as Aquinas' writings.

In essense he is arguing that the iPhone lacks this basic feature because it's good for us which is, of course, utter drivel. It's just a lazy omission like no MMS or multiple SMS groups. One hopes Apple will correct this.

What I did find interesting was this:

"

Microsoft did indeed rip off the mouse based GUI and other elements of Apple's OS. Problem is they did it better than Apple which is one of the reasons why MS based PCs dominate the businesss - and, indeed, personal - computing world. Will Apple make the same mistake again with the iPhone when other companies rip off its excellent interface and marry it to feature sets and contracts that people actually want?

Time will tell.
I don't see how you can be so sure other companies will be able to rip-off the iPhone. look at all of the crappy iPod look-alikes... mp3 players aren't THAT complicated.
 

nicegoogly

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#20
Same reason we don't have drop down menus or scrollbars. They think they're too MSFT. Scrolling through contacts or a long web site is ridiculously tedious. And backing up three menus to change email accounts instead of a quick drop down menu - ridiculous.

Copy/Paste - Touch to position cursor - quick double tap starts highlighting (or allows you to drag a box around items you want to copy). Lifting your finger of the screen pops up - oh no - a menu.

Scroll Bars won't take up screen realestate because they would only appear when you wanted them - just tap and hold on the right edge of the screen and they appear - and disappear if you don't use them. Duh!


I still love the phone - but I could do without Jobs' political statements...
I totally agree. I having recently switched back to mac after 15 years, I can see in the design of the Macbook Pro that there are settings you have access to that once engaged, make using the trackpad so much easier, but make it too much like a windows laptop. I love it and the iPhone, but Macs big and small simply will not conform. Would a second mouse button deface a macbook in any way? Absolutely not. It is too much like windows so screw off.

I have had windows mobile devices and they are fairly terrible at simple copy and paste features in many of their programs, most notably the calendar. The calendar is the only reason I still have my treo (I am an attorney and have many court dates that would be easier to copy and paste to another date than just type it over again). Treos and Blackberrys have a search feature, which I think Apple will bring spotlight over to the iPhone eventually to deal with it.

What Apple does do it does great. What is doesn't do will make you scratch your head. It is like saying: we don't want to check e-mail on the phone, that is a windows thing to do." At the end of the day, a Mac and PC are just computers. Computers do the same things (on a base level). Apple should never be afraid to do something that may have been done before, just do it better.