Nokia launches anti-iPhone campaign amid controversy

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Hondamaker

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May 14, 2007
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#1
"Bloggers and hackers aren't the only ones sticking it to iPhone maker Apple Inc. for its closed minded approach to user-customization of the touch-screen handsets -- Nokia has taken advantage of the situation by launching a print and web campaign dubbed "Open to anything.""

This might help us get some of what we want. Nokia may inadvertently cause Apple to reconsider their 3rd party apps closed-mindedness.
More of the article here----> http://www.appleinsider.com/article...es_anti_iphone_campaign_amid_controversy.html
 

ColsTiger

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Mar 8, 2007
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#3
"Bloggers and hackers aren't the only ones sticking it to iPhone maker Apple Inc. for its closed minded approach to user-customization of the touch-screen handsets -- Nokia has taken advantage of the situation by launching a print and web campaign dubbed "Open to anything.""

This might help us get some of what we want. Nokia may inadvertently cause Apple to reconsider their 3rd party apps closed-mindedness.
More of the article here----> http://www.appleinsider.com/article...es_anti_iphone_campaign_amid_controversy.html
It's amazing to me that people actually believe that Apple has some responsibility to to guarantee their phones after they've made modifications to the OS. IF you make modifications to your chevrolet, GM doesn't honor your warranty. If you make modifications to your Martin guitar, the Martin company doesn't honor the original warranty. What's the big deal here?
 

kdarling

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Jun 20, 2007
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#4
This is talking about opening the phone to third party apps, not about warranties.

But as far as the latter go, even Microsoft doesn't deliberately install updates they know will brick a computer. They even give out security updates to stolen Windows copies.

Apple's update software could very easily have looked to see if their code was in place, before going ahead.
 

tharmsen

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Jul 5, 2007
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#5
This is talking about opening the phone to third party apps, not about warranties.

But as far as the latter go, even Microsoft doesn't deliberately install updates they know will brick a computer. They even give out security updates to stolen Windows copies.

Apple's update software could very easily have looked to see if their code was in place, before going ahead.
First, we've seen no proof that Apple purposely bricked phones. Some of that responsibility must be on the person who hacked their phone to use an unauthorized SIM card. God only knows what problems such a modification could cause to a system that's having it's firmware updated. If you're smart enough to hack your phone, you're smart enough to take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions... that, or to have removed the unauthorized SIM card and restored the phone to its factory settings before doing the update. If you made a hardware modification to your phone and it got bricked, well... live and learn.

Yes, Apple could have authored their code to check for any number of unauthorized alterations, but why is it Apples responsibility to try and figure out what unauthorized mods people made and then try to code for them? If I over clock my computer or otherwise hack any of the components on my Dell computer, then apply a firmware update and my system stops responding, is that Dell's fault? No.

Now, if it's found that Apple has code in its firmware update that appears to purposely brick modified phones that's another story and they should be held accountable for the damaged phones. There is no evidence of that yet (to my knowledge).
 

webb

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Jul 19, 2007
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#7
First, we've seen no proof that Apple purposely bricked phones. Some of that responsibility must be on the person who hacked their phone to use an unauthorized SIM card. God only knows what problems such a modification could cause to a system that's having it's firmware updated. If you're smart enough to hack your phone, you're smart enough to take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions... that, or to have removed the unauthorized SIM card and restored the phone to its factory settings before doing the update. If you made a hardware modification to your phone and it got bricked, well... live and learn.

Yes, Apple could have authored their code to check for any number of unauthorized alterations, but why is it Apples responsibility to try and figure out what unauthorized mods people made and then try to code for them? If I over clock my computer or otherwise hack any of the components on my Dell computer, then apply a firmware update and my system stops responding, is that Dell's fault? No.

Now, if it's found that Apple has code in its firmware update that appears to purposely brick modified phones that's another story and they should be held accountable for the damaged phones. There is no evidence of that yet (to my knowledge).
Finally, a voice of reason! 100% true...

FW
 

Tinman

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Jul 16, 2007
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#8
The fact remains that this has turned into a PR debacle for Apple. No doubt about that. Nearly all press about the 1.1.1 update was about about the harm it did, very little that praised it.

If Nokia want to capitalize on the moment, they can. Sooner or later a company is going to make a product that competes with the iphone--and it ain't here yet--and when it does I have no doubt it will be marketed as the open platform to the iPhone's closed.

Nothing personal here from Nokia, it's just businesss.



--
Mike
 

Hondamaker

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May 14, 2007
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#9
It's amazing to me that people actually believe that Apple has some responsibility to to guarantee their phones after they've made modifications to the OS. IF you make modifications to your chevrolet, GM doesn't honor your warranty. If you make modifications to your Martin guitar, the Martin company doesn't honor the original warranty. What's the big deal here?
Dude, I fully understand about the warranty and all. That's not the issue. I/we just want to customize the phone, whether it voids the warranty or not. That's the price some of us are willing to pay.
 

SmartAlx

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Jun 7, 2007
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#10
Thank you Tinman for getting us back on topic.

Please can we keep it that way? Let's not let this thread turn into yet another argument about warranties, EULA, Apple bricking phones, controversies over the morality/legality of unlocking iPhones, etc.

As kdarling said, the topic is about opening the phone to third party apps. Please let's keep it on topic.

Thank you all.

Now my contribution:

The N95 has so far always pretty much been the top competitor to the iPhone. I assumed it was closed too. I'm so glad to hear that the iPhone's biggest competition is latching onto Apple's failure and turning it into their own success. Though the PC did that a long time ago and Apple didn't learn from that. I hope they learn from this. But it really does go against Apple's methodology. Both to allow a lot of 3rd party development, and shoot, to pay attention to competition. It seems to me like Apple's never really cared what the competition did, though my experience is admittadly lacking.

Hopefully this will at least pave the way for an SDK so Apple will allow SOME authorized development, though I wouldn't be surprised if nothing changes with Apple.
 

minivini

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Jul 6, 2007
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#11
I firmly believe Apple will give us more apps. Whether or not they are free, cheap, or expensive remains to be seen. Maybe some of each. Whether or not they will be designed solely as revenue generators (like the WiFi store) also remains to be seen. It is painfully obvious, though, that it's in Apple's best interest to continue to develop the existing platform by giving us more "stuff". If they want to "control" who develops by charging licensing fees, or "protect" it by only allowing tightly contolled code, or keep all development in-house is really irrelevant to 99% of all us end users. If they don't develop any more apps, and something better, more "open", and less biased (for lack of a better term) comes along, Apple will feel it in their profit margins. If Nokia wants to throw some negative press at Apple because of a controversial strategy, more power to them. It can only help us in the end.
 

Tinman

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#12
I firmly believe Apple will give us more apps. Whether or not they are free, cheap, or expensive remains to be seen. Maybe some of each. Whether or not they will be designed solely as revenue generators (like the WiFi store) also remains to be seen. It is painfully obvious, though, that it's in Apple's best interest to continue to develop the existing platform by giving us more "stuff". If they want to "control" who develops by charging licensing fees, or "protect" it by only allowing tightly contolled code, or keep all development in-house is really irrelevant to 99% of all us end users.
It's becoming more and more apparent that it is in fact not just a tiny sliver of iPhone owners who want control over their own phone.

If this debacle wasn't widely known Nokia would never have used it in ads.

Moreover, when Joe and Jane six-pack are seeing the underlying message that Apple crippled the iPhone some will think, "I don't want that!" As someone who really likes the iPhone, and would like it in as many hands as possible, this thought does not make me happy.

Moreover, the ship has sailed as far as apps are concerned. Apple cannot put that genie back in the bottle. As the excellent piece yesterday in Engadget put it, "The only thing worse than taking something away is taking it away only to offer it back for money."

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/01/...one-customers-on-the-v1-1-1-update/2#comments

A well reasoned article, I suggest all read it.


--
Mike
 

minivini

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#13
Oh, I definitely agree. Apple has been on "the bubble" for a while now in regards to how the lack of features (apps) has been perceived (by the general public - not by us rabid "power users"). If the next update doesn't include some needed features enabled (we ALL know what those are) as well as a few fun and useful applications, they will definitely start falling WELL behind the curve of public opinion. That, in turn, may well cause Apple to start losing interest in long term development for us all...
 

Tinman

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#14
Oh, I definitely agree. Apple has been on "the bubble" for a while now in regards to how the lack of features (apps) has been perceived (by the general public - not by us rabid "power users"). If the next update doesn't include some needed features enabled (we ALL know what those are) as well as a few fun and useful applications, they will definitely start falling WELL behind the curve of public opinion. That, in turn, may well cause Apple to start losing interest in long term development for us all...
My take is that Apple hoped this would not happen, or not happen so quickly.

It is my belief they hoped to bring out native apps when they needed to. Kinda like not bringing in your relief pitcher when the starter is pitching a no hitter. But it now seems like they need to get on the phone with the bullpen quick-like.


--
Mike
 

VasiliosKN

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Jul 1, 2007
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#15
Some of us don't care about voiding the warranty. Just let us customize those ugly green icons! ;)

BTW I went to the Apple store to chat with the geeks there. One of them told me that MMS and iChat will be available for the next gen iPhone. Why not for this gen? Battery life. I don't know about these things, but I guess it kinda makes sense. Comments?
 

Tinman

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#16
Some of us don't care about voiding the warranty. Just let us customize those ugly green icons! ;)

BTW I went to the Apple store to chat with the geeks there. One of them told me that MMS and iChat will be available for the next gen iPhone. Why not for this gen? Battery life. I don't know about these things, but I guess it kinda makes sense. Comments?
I don't mean to sound rude, but I have yet to hear anything of value from a geek at an Apple store regarding the iPhone (Mac stuff, no problem). In all likelihood they know less about what is coming than the folks here or at any other iPhone site.

I sat in on an "advanced" iPhone user training session and after having to correct the "teacher" a half a dozen times for erroneous information he literally turned the "class" over to me. It was pretty funny, actually. And, no, none of it had anything to do with mods or 3rd party apps (e.g., the guy said bookmark syncing didn't work, and definitely didn't work both ways, and it was only there to get the iPhone "primed"--I kid you not).



--
Mike
 

Dawgfan

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Jul 27, 2007
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#18
Some of us don't care about voiding the warranty. Just let us customize those ugly green icons! ;)

BTW I went to the Apple store to chat with the geeks there. One of them told me that MMS and iChat will be available for the next gen iPhone. Why not for this gen? Battery life. I don't know about these things, but I guess it kinda makes sense. Comments?
I don't mean to sound too critcal but this sounds like a big load. So basically he said that Apple can and has updated the current line of iPhones with apps that will allow us to give Apple more $$ but the apps like MMS and IM, which will bring functionality that should have been on the phone to begin with will only be available to new iPhone buyers.

I could be alone here but I would be pretty ticked if that was the case. You never know, especially after that Apple lady telling folks who had their iPhones bricked to just buy another one. AYFKM?
 

prmdbr

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Jul 29, 2007
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#19
but the apps like MMS and IM, which will bring functionality that should have been on the phone to begin with will only be available to new iPhone buyers.

I could be alone here but I would be pretty ticked if that was the case.
prepare to start calling yourself Timex.
 

minivini

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#20
My take is that Apple hoped this would not happen, or not happen so quickly.

It is my belief they hoped to bring out native apps when they needed to. Kinda like not bringing in your relief pitcher when the starter is pitching a no hitter. But it now seems like they need to get on the phone with the bullpen quick-like.


--
Mike
Not a bad analogy. I even agree, in part, that bringing us a little here and there keeps the device fun and interesting - but yeah, it's time to pee or get off the pot.

It wouldn't even be so bad if Apple said, "Hey, we feel the iPhone works just fine the way it is. We have no plans to enable C/P, file management, serial or A2DP BT functionality..." I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'd still enjoy my iPhone and I'd stop anticipating each update with such anxiety. Don't get me wrong, I'd probably start scanning for a more complete device in a year or two, but this is still - in it's current form - the best converged device I've ever used.