so Apple IS bricking phones on purpose?

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Hawk

Genius
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Aug 2, 2007
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ATL
#2
I was just talking with the author of the article over Yahoo chat, and I asked several times if he could confirm that Apple knowingly bricked the unlocked iPhones. He said that, that was his impression from the article he was referencing that Apple did indeed set the 1.1.1 update to brick unlocked iPhones.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/technology/29iPhone.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Now I know that this still isn't concrete as to Apple's intent, but it looks like it was purposeful.
And before this becomes another thread of "we should sue Apple", I want you to think about the fact that there WAS warning before the update was released. So, however unethical it might have been to completely kill the phone, they did state it before hand.
what needs to be determined is whether or not Apple has the right to make an unlocked phone useless in the first place, even if being unlocked voilates the EULA. It's one thing to say, "you voilated the warranty" and not support it, it's another to render the device completely inoperable and then say "too bad", regardless of their warnings.
 

nyc_rock

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Jul 6, 2007
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#3
I don't disagree with you, but still. And I probably even agree with Apple if the phone was unlocked. But to brick phones with apps is really out of line.
 

AngelJO008

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Jun 20, 2007
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#4
to be fair to Apple, they did give the warning, and no one forced anyone to upgrade their firmware. It's still a choice on the consumers part to either hack the phone and get what they want from 3rd party apps without further updates from Apple or to leave the phone virgin and graciously accept the new FW and updates and still be supported by Apple. Either way you look at it, it's still a choice on the consumers part to either partake or not.
 

nyc_rock

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Jul 6, 2007
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#5
to be fair to Apple, they did give the warning, and no one forced anyone to upgrade their firmware. It's still a choice on the consumers part to either hack the phone and get what they want from 3rd party apps without further updates from Apple or to leave the phone virgin and graciously accept the new FW and updates and still be supported by Apple. Either way you look at it, it's still a choice on the consumers part to either partake or not.

You guys are seriously crazy if you think Apple is justified to destroy a device because people want to customize it in ways Apple, in all their intellectual superiority, has decided you should'nt. I have no problem with voiding warranties, that makes perfect sense. but to disable a device? Ridiculous. Everyone like to use the car analogy. I see it all the time, "you mess with your car a break it, don't expect to take it back to the dealer". Ok fine. but when you rig your car it doesn't stop running.

And like I said, unlocking the phone to use on another carrier, to me anyway, is a different story. that is stealing from At&t and warrants a bricking.
 

AngelJO008

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Jun 20, 2007
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#6
You guys are seriously crazy if you think Apple is justified to destroy a device because people want to customize it in ways Apple, in all their intellectual superiority, has decided you should'nt. I have no problem with voiding warranties, that makes perfect sense. but to disable a device? Ridiculous. Everyone like to use the car analogy. I see it all the time, "you mess with your car a break it, don't expect to take it back to the dealer". Ok fine. but when you rig your car it doesn't stop running.

And like I said, unlocking the phone to use on another carrier, to me anyway, is a different story. that is stealing from At&t and warrants a bricking.
If I'm given a warning that putting a certain device on my car will make it either explode or stop working I will seriously reconsider changing my vehicle. same thing here. The warning was given, people made the choice to upgrade and it backfired on them. How is this Apple's fault? It's STILL the consumers choice to upgrade or not.
 

nyc_rock

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Jul 6, 2007
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#7
Myabe you're right. If you wouldn't mind. Please show me where Apple says that;

"If you have added any 3rd party software to you phone, this update will cause your phone to be inoperable."
 

AngelJO008

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Jun 20, 2007
140
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#8
Myabe you're right. If you wouldn't mind. Please show me where Apple says that;

"If you have added any 3rd party software to you phone, this update will cause your phone to be inoperable."

Press ReleaseSource: Apple Apple today released the following statement:
Monday September 24, 4:40 pm ET
CUPERTINO, Calif., Sept. 24 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple has discovered that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed. Apple plans to release the next iPhone software update, containing many new features including the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store (www.iTunes.com), later this week. Apple strongly discourages users from installing unauthorized unlocking programs on their iPhones. Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone voilate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty. The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty.


This would also include the third party apps as you have to "unlock" the device so to speak in order to install the third party software. the unlocking is not confined to SIM unlocking only. It refers to unlocking the phone in any way shape or form. Albeit that the news report was VERY vague in that people were not sure if the unlocking meant SIM unlocks or unlocks in any way shape or form. Now we know after people tried to update their devices that it was meant in any way shape or form. sorry, but I still stick with the notion it is the user's choice whether to take that chance in that the device would not be bricked even AFTER Apple issued a warning to the mass public regarding this very instance.
 

tharmsen

New Member
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Jul 5, 2007
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#10
Apple has discovered that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed.
That's not proof they are purposely bricking phones. It says that Apple "discovered" certain 3rd party programs could cause the phone to have serious problems with the upgrade.

We will find out once they hack 1.1.1 what Apple did and if they did it on purpose. If they did brick phones on purpose, you can expect a pretty solid class action lawsuit to be filed.
 

SpongebObiWan

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Aug 25, 2007
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#11
"unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed"

Look! This is simple logic. NOBODY (that I have heard of) who had unlocked their iPhone, bricked their phone as a result of unlocking it. The bricking came as the result of the update. The "irrepairable damage" Apple speaks to, thereforee, was done by Apple. Although Apple worded this very carefuly, to sidestep the reality, the reality remains that it was the update that caused the bricking, not the unlocks. Had those with unlocked iPhones NOT updated, they would still be using their phones today. Do the math. This isn't that difficult.

Now, having said that, PROVING this to be the case (though it's pretty obvious this IS the truth), is another story. He said, she said scenario. Needs evidence.
 

entong

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Sep 21, 2007
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#12
i don't think Apple do it on purpose. they just intend to protect their agreement with their cellphone provider such as att.

its not funny if att gives Apple law suit again hehe..don't ya think so?:laugh2:

thats just my 2 cent
 

AngelJO008

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Jun 20, 2007
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#13
Had those with unlocked iPhones NOT updated, they would still be using their phones today. Do the math. This isn't that difficult.

EXACTLY. My point was not about the update or the hacking of phones, but the choice in which consumer chooses to do either this or that with their phones. If you hack your phone and you like it better that way, good for you. However, if you unlocked your phone and then expected nothing to go wrong with the next update, THAT'S where the choice comes into play. We can go around and around on this topic all day if you'd like, the fact still remains whether Apple intended to brick the phones or not, the consumer made a choice to unlock their phones. Apple didn't complain about the unlocked phones, but consumers sure are complaining about the update bricking their phones when they shouldn't have updated it in the first place knowing full well it was a hacked product, and especially after the warning Apple gave that this very consequence might occur.
 

SpongebObiWan

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Aug 25, 2007
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#14
EXACTLY. My point was not about the update or the hacking of phones, but the choice in which consumer chooses to do either this or that with their phones. If you hack your phone and you like it better that way, good for you. However, if you unlocked your phone and then expected nothing to go wrong with the next update, THAT'S where the choice comes into play. We can go around and around on this topic all day if you'd like, the fact still remains whether Apple intended to brick the phones or not, the consumer made a choice to unlock their phones. Apple didn't complain about the unlocked phones, but consumers sure are complaining about the update bricking their phones when they shouldn't have updated it in the first place knowing full well it was a hacked product, and especially after the warning Apple gave that this very consequence might occur.
Well certainly, you are right, Angel. By updating, is how people who have unlocked, lost usage of their phones. But, I think there is more to it then that.

We live in a society, where oftentimes we are directed to "trust nobody". I'm not saying I like that idea, nor do I fully conform to it. However, we (collectively) "feel" as if we should be able to trust some entities. Such as, consumers feel that they should be able to trust Apple, to do what's in their (the consumer's) best interest, as a paying and loyal customer.

Now, realistically, this is not true, as Apple actually has their OWN best interest at heart. And yes, I can already hear the "counterpoint" to this from those that will say "but in the final analysis, the happy customer base is what drives the success of any company" (and they are correct), but I think that that is not always how major corporations such as Apple view things. And in this particular case, many consumers were "trusting" of Apple, into thinking that "Apple would never do anything to harm me or my iPhone", or something along those lines.

When they were alerted to the update, I am sure that many, even though they did in fact read the warning (some probably didn't even bother to read the warning perhaps due to this "trust" mindset), proceeded with the update anyway, with that mindset in place.

From that perspective, it could be argued that Apple voilated that trust, in that they issued a software update that they KNEW was going to brick unlocked iPhones at a minimum, and possibly even some modded (jailbroken) iPhones as well. Therefore, from that perspective, this could also be construed as a deliberate act, when you plug the "trust" issue into the equation.

I am sure that this "trust" and customer loyalty is something that Apple relies heavily upon, in order to continue to build their company. And one would also think that that was something they certainly must have taken into consideration during this update process (development and issuance). But the fact remains, Apple nevertheless decided to go ahead with this "update" inspite of all of what damage it might do. It reminds me of the old idium: "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely".
 

AngelJO008

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Jun 20, 2007
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#15
I'm not using the quote on this one because the quotes are getting longer :D

When you put it so eloquently, I have to say that I can see your point. I can see why people would be so upset. When you add the "trust" factor in there, then I too would feel betrayed. I guess it's all in how you choose to look at the situation, which is how, I guess, this debate came about in the first place :D