Soution to Lynne's posting "SMS" iPhone all show & no go

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lynne

New Member
Jul 29, 2007
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#1
8AM July 30, 2007

I called iPhone technicians and suggested to them a very simple solution. To have a website or a URL page (just like verizon, blackberry, etc.) that you can send and receive messages. Sign in just like a an email. This is still on a real time. Messages are saved in an inbox, and sent folders just like an email. What is so hard about doing this? Afterall, you have all the webmasters, engineers and the servers to do this. Get on the band wagon please.

4PM July 30, 2007

We’ll after doing a lot of research (two days), I found a site that can actually do what I’m suggesting above. www.ipipi.com. The only thing is I have to pay another $24.95. That is the middle pkg they offer. So, yeah I have unlimited text with iPhone that is $20.00 plus, the plan and now the $24.95 extra (that is Not unlimited)… now it is getting pretty expensive. I think that iPhone should have a complimentary website for their customers convenience especially since this is an oversight in their design.
I suggest that iPhone lovers should call Apple and make this suggestion. You guys don’t know when you are going to need those text for important reason. For example, yesterday a friend of mine have been trying to fight to get her paycheck from her employer. The employer have been unstable with the decision of paying her. One day the employer sent text to my friend that she will get paid but in a matter of hours, the employer changed her mind. The texting & the employer’s behaviour became much worse in the last two weeks. Threatening even to deport my friend (my friend is on a work visa as a consultant). This happened several times. The employer owes her $8,000 of back pay. I adviced her before NOT to erase her text. She came to me when her text was full. I adviced her to forward her text to her email address, she’s with sprint. I taught her how to do it since she’s not really tech savvy. Yesterday, she went to the labour of commission and showed them the text between her and the employer. Immediately the labour commission said, oh yes you definitely won this case. My friend didn’t have to take the employer to court which saved her time, money and agony. The labour commission, sent a demand letter to the employer to pay her.

Now, you see how important those text can be? You guys don’t know when you can be in the same situation. Court is all about proof/evidence. Text or sms is not all about fun times with your friends, it is very useful when your relationship goes sour with anyone.

In this case I suggest that iPhone fans should insist Apple to create this complimentary website identical to www.ipipi.com. Please send me your replies (NOT angry one’s). Let me know what you think about this.

Hey, what about starting to circulate a letter or email and have people sign it and forward it to Apple? (sorry, I just thought of that one just now)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer to the post below:

TITLE: iPhone is all show and no go!

The major problem with iPhone is that you cannot forward or save the text or sms it in your pc. I need the text for court. even my old cell phone can do this. Right now my iPhone is telling me my text are full and need to erase some. I can't understand it. I have 8 gb, no video yet, no music. not even 50 mg I used yet and I'm getting this text message is full. I told the techs, I have eight issues I'd like help with. My number one issue was the above. (Forget the other 7 if they can’t answer number 1)

I called cingular tech - put me to six diff. techs put me on hold for 10 to 20 min for each tech. They are morons.
I called Apple tech - nice they answered right away, but cannot help me with the problem. they said call AT&T... what? I thought you guys are the expert on your iPhone?
I called AT&T put me on hold total 30 min. with 3 diff. techs -
last one's solution: Why don't you take a camera and take a pics of your text? lol! this is embarrassing.

Total wasted time with iPhone problem almost 3 hrs! and that is only with question number one. what about my other seven issues?

Message to iPhone engineers: I can save all these text and pass it on to millions of others. can your iPhone do the same? Dudes, all show and no go!
 

wjp09

Zealot
Gold
Feb 25, 2007
2,559
25
48
NJ
#2
So your saying instead of paying 20 a month for unlimited you prefer to pay 45 to be able to send them from your computer?
 

lynne

New Member
Jul 29, 2007
6
0
0
#3
reply about saving

Actually you can create the pop and smtp from your iPhone (mailbox button). and compose and receive your txt just like on a real time. It works really good. As for the savings, I'm not sure yet. I just signed up with ipipi.com. If you pull your text via iPhone, you actually making savings because now you're not paying for the outgoing. It's going through ipipi.com The receiver can press reply very easily. You can configure it on how you want to receive the text. You can also save on the incoming... pls. go read their FAQ on how to.

--------------------------------------------------
So your saying instead of paying 20 a month for unlimited you prefer to pay 45 to be able to send them from your computer?
 

jpmihalk

Member
Bronze
May 16, 2007
253
3
18
USA
#4
The last time I checked, I thought that the courts could subpoena the text messaging content from the phone companies. Why would the iPhone be any different?
 

Tinman

Evangelist
Gold
Jul 16, 2007
4,334
183
63
Aridzona
#5
You can already send people SMS to using their provider's email-to-SMS facilities (e.g., Sprint's is 5555551212@messaging.sprintpcs.com). When they reply you get it via email too. You can even CC yourself and keep copies of sent/received messages for as long as you want.

As for your petition, I wouldn't sign it as I see it as unnecessary and there are 3rd-party solutions that fill this niche (and, yes, I think it is a niche).

No comment about your friend, since you definitely wouldn't want to know how I feel about work visas/permits in this country.


--
Mike
 

Martlet

New Member
Bronze
Jul 11, 2007
145
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#6
I guess it's all a matter of how you use technology.

I don't think SMS is a good way to handle businesss correspondence due to the lack of an audit trail. Does Sarbanes-Oxley cover SMS communications? It's possible it does if your businesss defines that as a standard businesss communication method I guess, but then I'd assume you have a very good reason not to use it, since then you'd have to maintain records of it.

Archiveable SMS doesn't seem to be a standard implementation, so I wouldn't expect Apple to feel the need to support it.

As some pointed out, SMS has email gateways back and forth, so you can always email to others that only have SMS capabilities, and they can SMS back to your email address, which would provide an audit trail.

But as you pointed out, the businesss quality equivalent of SMS, push email, isn't available on the iPhone except through Yahoo, so you'd have to use a Yahoo account for this, or wait at most 15 minutes to be notified of a reply.


Is there an SMS working group defining the standard? It might be better to
contact them to request an addition to the standard to include an audit trail, which would help companies who want to use SMS as a businesss tool instead of push email be able to justify it as a practical tool.

Otherwise, I believe Apple implements the standard as it exists today properly, and asking them to extend it to incorporate additional features probably won't make much headway.
 

cmoney

New Member
Jul 27, 2007
24
0
1
#7
While I think this particular usage is a niche, the ability to forward SMS definitely is NOT a niche! Don't you ever get someone's phone number txted to you and then you forward it to a friend? Or someone txts you the directions to a party and then you need to forward it to someone else? The iPhone can't do something as simple as that!

On another note, the iPhone apparently backs up all your txts to a directory on your computer. It's stored in some compressed SQLite file format that can be decompressed and accessed via some free tools. I'm not sure if it only keeps track of the txts currently on your phone or if it does a full archive.
 

Martlet

New Member
Bronze
Jul 11, 2007
145
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#8
While I think this particular usage is a niche, the ability to forward SMS definitely is NOT a niche! Don't you ever get someone's phone number txted to you and then you forward it to a friend? Or someone txts you the directions to a party and then you need to forward it to someone else? The iPhone can't do something as simple as that!
No and no. ;) It's probably a generational thing, but we email phone numbers or directions.

Though I have younger friends who tend to use SMS interchangeably with email (probably because they didn't have the option to email from a phone and so were forced to use SMS).

SMS is just push email writ simple (simple messaging service). It's suffered from some 3rd party "embrace and extend" to allow the things you mention, but I don't believe the standards require that particular functionality. Otherwise Apple would have included it. Instead they included email that also does these things as part of the email standards.

I agree it would be nice, but I think that eliminating SMS (and MMS) altogether and replacing it all with push email would be the better solution in the long term.

But we're stuck communicating with a lot of existing devices that only handle SMS/MMS for now, so Apple has implemented the minimum required functionality to communicate with our heathen brothers who haven't been brought into the Apple fold yet.

Add contacts as <phonenumber>@<SMS_gateway> and you should be set to eventually move away from SMS completely if push email becomes more common.

On another note, the iPhone apparently backs up all your txts to a directory on your computer. It's stored in some compressed SQLite file format that can be decompressed and accessed via some free tools. I'm not sure if it only keeps track of the txts currently on your phone or if it does a full archive.
Yeah... it does back up everything on your phone that way for the restore from backup functionality, but it's rather outside the scope of most people's abilities to archive SMS messages that way.
 

Tinman

Evangelist
Gold
Jul 16, 2007
4,334
183
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Aridzona
#9
While I think this particular usage is a niche, the ability to forward SMS definitely is NOT a niche! Don't you ever get someone's phone number txted to you and then you forward it to a friend?
I have never forwarded a single SMS in my life, so no. I didn't even know my Treo could do it till I saw people complaining about it here.

However, what you described would be easy to do if we had copy-and-paste! :cool:


--
Mike
 

iFun Girl

New Member
Bronze
Jul 24, 2007
31
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0
#10
I'm curious to hear about what the pro-SMS folk would do had text messaging never existed.

Actually pick up the phone and call? How gauche!
 

cmoney

New Member
Jul 27, 2007
24
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1
#12
However, what you described would be easy to do if we had copy-and-paste! :cool:
Tell me about it. That would solve SO many problems IMHO. And it would be so easy to implement too.

Martlet said:
No and no. ;) It's probably a generational thing, but we email phone numbers or directions.
Must be. Though I'm not a teen by any means:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061002-7877.html

I just find that email is much more likely to go unread for a day or at least a few hours. If I want to make sure someone reads something, I send it via txt. There's no guarantee my friends will be at a computer anytime soon, but they're gonna have their cell on them no matter what.
 

cmoney

New Member
Jul 27, 2007
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#14
Why can't you just answer the question? It wasn't rhetorical.
Mostly because it's a moot question. SMS is here to stay and the only way it's gonna go is for the majority of cell phones to provide something different. And I doubt it's gonna be email. The nice thing about SMS from a carrier's point of view is that it doesn’t require internet access. So if you think about where SMS was first made popular - internationally and especially countries where computers don't have as high penetration - that's a big selling point, less infrastructure to setup. When I roam internationally, there are countries where I won't get EDGE access but I can still SMS just fine. (On top of that, SMS is a cash cow for carriers.)

But if I were to speculate, I'm not so sure something would've taken its place. Email or IM may have been adapted to suit the same purpose but that would've only happened in 1st world nations where data access is ubiquitous. As a result you might see internet access on more phones than you do now (although most phones nowadays are internet-capable, I'd venture to say a significant chunk of people do not pay for an internet access plan).

I'm also not so sure calling people would replace txting in all the situations where SMS is used, primarily because one of the big uses of SMS (worldwide at least) is to replace international long distance calling in the first place.

Actually, the worst of all worlds may have occurred: Push To Talk may have become the popular standard and we'd be using Nextel iPhones right now!
 

Sleeper

New Member
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Jul 21, 2007
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#15
Why can't you just answer the question? It wasn't rhetorical.
Because it's a silly question given that the popularity of cellphones is largely due to the SMS function. However, if you want an answer then it's this:

They would phone people.

Happy?
 

iFun Girl

New Member
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Jul 24, 2007
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#16
Cmoney gets a cookie.

You, Sleeper, do not.

While I can understand why some may advocate the use of SMS, I don't think it is any reliable than leaving someone a message on their voicemail. All too often, I send a text to someone. No response. A couple of days goes by....no response. When I ask these same people about why they didn't respond, they simply stated that they cannot afford to pay per text (this obviously applies to those without an unlimited text packaging) and if I wanted to talk to them....just call. Even if they are on an unlimited plan, they still don't respond. So how can I be sure they even saw my text? In addition, many people I know don't even bother with text. For those without a Qwerty keyboard, it's a big pain in the butt, and I certainly don't blame them.

SMS is here to stay and the only way it's gonna go is for the majority of cell phones to provide something different.
You're speaking of technology, right? In that case, a certain aspect of technology is never here to stay. A lot of folks thought 8-tracks were here to stay. And SMS will eventually be replaced by something else....bigger and better. It's popular right now because it's people-driven. Or it could be popular because it's easier to break up with someone or quit your job via text than actually call in person. The latter is a bit disheartening. I don't think very highly of those who go this route. And unfortunately, these folks overshadow the ones that use it sensibly.

Don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that I am against SMS. I try to use it, but my family and friends have no inclination whatsoever to bother with it.

The nice thing about SMS from a carrier's point of view is that it doesn’t require internet access
I don't understand this. I was under the impression that you needed some sort of internet access. In my case, one time when my Edge was down, I couldn't send a text whatsoever. Can you clarify this further?

And in response to the original topic posted by Lynne, I would certainly hope that she sought the advice of an attorney during this process. If it really is for legal purposes than I would think an attorney would have a better idea how to obtain this information a little better than the folks at Apple. If I was in Lynne's situation, I would harass my attorney....not Apple.
 

cmoney

New Member
Jul 27, 2007
24
0
1
#17
Cmoney gets a cookie.
Heh, thanks.
So how can I be sure they even saw my text? In addition, many people I know don't even bother with text. For those without a Qwerty keyboard, it's a big pain in the butt, and I certainly don't blame them.
Tho I don't see it much anymore, SMS supports return receipt. I used to use this to confirm when people received messages.

You're speaking of technology, right? In that case, a certain aspect of technology is never here to stay.
Of course you're right, I was just speaking in the mid-term range, SMS will be here for at least a few years. Just think about how the transition would have to take place. People would essentially have to buy completely new phones to get the new system so that's at least 1-2 years out, assuming something new came out tomorrow. And carriers would still have to layout the new infrastructure, and then if it's not interoperable between CDMA and GSM, that's another road block. MMS when first introduced did not work between carriers for at least 6-12 months.

It's popular right now because it's people-driven. Or it could be popular because it's easier to break up with someone or quit your job via text than actually call in person. The latter is a bit disheartening. I don't think very highly of those who go this route. And unfortunately, these folks overshadow the ones that use it sensibly.
That is a bit sad huh. On the other end of the spectrum, while txting can be impersonal at times, it's nice to get a surprise txt from a friend you haven't heard from in a while. Or even better, since it's international, I love getting messages from friends while on the other side of the globe. And it's cheaper for them to send a quick "want anything from hong kong?" than gimme a call at some inconvenient time for both of us.

Don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that I am against SMS. I try to use it, but my family and friends have no inclination whatsoever to bother with it.
It's very much "clique" based, even more so than generation-based. Once a group of friends/family starts using (you know, like a drug:)), I think it becomes the standard mode of communication. A few years ago, my mom took a tour group vacation to Europe. When she got back, she was an SMS fiend. Even more so than my friends at the time. She said the tour operator used it for messaging the tour group to let them know of itinerary changes, weather updates (bring an umbrella) etc. Now she's got an unlimited plan and knows all the acronyms and T9!

I don't understand this. I was under the impression that you needed some sort of internet access. In my case, one time when my Edge was down, I couldn't send a text whatsoever. Can you clarify this further?
IIRC, SMS has been around since before even GPRS (the precursor to EDGE) was out. It's possible that the way your particular carrier has implemented SMS, they transmit SMS over EDGE. And in fact, that's how MMS has always worked: it transfers messages via GPRS. It's carrier dependent but SMS can exist completely without any internet support at all.
 

Sleeper

New Member
Bronze
Jul 21, 2007
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#18
You, Sleeper, do not.
I'll try not to be crushed by the disapointment.

While I can understand why some may advocate the use of SMS, I don't think it is any reliable than leaving someone a message on their voicemail.
Except SMS is receipt driven, immediate and can be sent to multiple people.

All too often, I send a text to someone. No response. A couple of days goes by....no response. When I ask these same people about why they didn't respond, they simply stated that they cannot afford to pay per text (this obviously applies to those without an unlimited text packaging)
Eh? Most plans cover text and call packages. Even when you exceed your limit or use PAYG is about 20c per message. It's actually cheaper to text than call a lot of the time.

and if I wanted to talk to them....just call.


And if you don't - or they don't want to talk - then just text. Simple, no?

Even if they are on an unlimited plan, they still don't respond.
So how can I be sure they even saw my text?
Receipts.

In addition, many people I know don't even bother with text. For those without a Qwerty keyboard, it's a big pain in the butt, and I certainly don't blame them.
Rubbish. T9 is intuitive, extremely easy to use and, as such, used by millions.

You're speaking of technology, right? In that case, a certain aspect of technology is never here to stay. A lot of folks thought 8-tracks were here to stay. And SMS will eventually be replaced by something else....bigger and better.
Perhaps. I'll worry about it when it happens. In the meantime I'll use the feature just like 90% of the rest of the cellphone owning population.

It's popular right now because it's people-driven. Or it could be popular because it's easier to break up with someone or quit your job via text than actually call in person. The latter is a bit disheartening. I don't think very highly of those who go this route. And unfortunately, these folks overshadow the ones that use it sensibly.
No they don't. I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say. Texts are used by millions of people every day for all sorts of things, some good some bad. Just because a few use text to break up with people do you seriously think that counteracts the enormous benefit of SMS? What about people who break up by phone call? Are they any better?

Don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that I am against SMS. I try to use it, but my family and friends have no inclination whatsoever to bother with it.
Good for you but you are not the world.

I don't understand this. I was under the impression that you needed some sort of internet access. In my case, one time when my Edge was down, I couldn't send a text whatsoever. Can you clarify this further?
No. SMS is sent on the same carrier wave as your call.

And in response to the original topic posted by Lynne, I would certainly hope that she sought the advice of an attorney during this process. If it really is for legal purposes than I would think an attorney would have a better idea how to obtain this information a little better than the folks at Apple. If I was in Lynne's situation, I would harass my attorney....not Apple.
The point is that the iPhone doesn't meet her requirements. She should probably have checked this before she bought it though.
 

lynne

New Member
Jul 29, 2007
6
0
0
#19
answer: Pick up the phone and call

The most interesting thing is, most people will NOT answer calls especially when they are in a meeting. However, they will reply via text even during these meetings because it is quite and easy short messages to type to the other person. I noticed that in our meetings, everybody put their phones in vibrate but they keep checking their phones for text and they reply back. That is why texting is a very popular tool nowadays. Especially when you really need to get a hold of someone at that moment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm curious to hear about what the pro-SMS folk would do had text messaging never existed.

Actually pick up the phone and call? How gauche!
 

lynne

New Member
Jul 29, 2007
6
0
0
#20
I did check all the specs before buying it. Thanks

I did check all the specs before buying it. Please go and check. Thank you for responding---------------------------------------------------:mad:



I'll try not to be crushed by the disapointment.



Except SMS is receipt driven, immediate and can be sent to multiple people.




:eek:

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Eh? Most plans cover text and call packages. Even when you exceed your limit or use PAYG is about 20c per message. It's actually cheaper to text than call a lot of the time.

[/i]

And if you don't - or they don't want to talk - then just text. Simple, no?



Receipts.



Rubbish. T9 is intuitive, extremely easy to use and, as such, used by millions.



Perhaps. I'll worry about it when it happens. In the meantime I'll use the feature just like 90% of the rest of the cellphone owning population.



No they don't. I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say. Texts are used by millions of people every day for all sorts of things, some good some bad. Just because a few use text to break up with people do you seriously think that counteracts the enormous benefit of SMS? What about people who break up by phone call? Are they any better?



Good for you but you are not the world.



No. SMS is sent on the same carrier wave as your call.



The point is that the iPhone doesn't meet her requirements. She should probably have checked this before she bought it though.