"Tactile feedback" is so last century. Critics need to get with the times.

applefreak

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#1
I've got a message for all those media pundits and whiners complaining about the lack of "tactile feedback" in the iPhone and how physical keyboards are supposedly so superior for typing on mobile phones...

You uncoordinated fat-fingered pre-centennial throwbacks need to get with the times and realize just how shitty it is to type on your chicklet-size buttons that require precise amounts of pressure to register contact. Not to mention the prevalence of single buttons often hosting two or more characters only slowing the process even more. And T9? That crutch doesn't save you either.

So get back in your preserved Fiero with the pop up headlights and mudflaps. Drive home listening to Starship on your Blaupunkt tape deck until you get home to your comfy lazy-E-boy chair with the optional dual cup holders. Flip on that big screen Zenith 32" CRT and pour yourself a nice cool bowl of Count Chocula before settling into another night of Magnum P.I. re-runs. Don't bother spending a couple hours learning how easy it is to throw down text on an iPhone like a Sidekick-wielding Hollywood socialite. Forget about progress and the forward march of technology. Instead, focus on finding that Apple/AT&T receipt to exchange your iPhone tomorrow for a sweet new pager from Nextel.

Ahhh...isn't that better? They don't call ignorance bliss for nothing.
 

Silverado

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#2
This is silly. Tactile feedback is important to humans, period. It would take millions of years for people to not need it (i.e. evolution time scale). That's why tactile feedback is coming to touch screens. The iPhone introduced visual feedback in place of tactile feedback and this is one of the reasons this works well. Imagine how much better this would be if/when Apple adds tactile feedback to their touch screens when the technology matures.
 

lilo

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#3
It is not that simple

I've got a message for all those media pundits and whiners complaining about the lack of "tactile feedback" in the iPhone and how physical keyboards are supposedly so superior for typing on mobile phones...
You of course are implying that this "revolutionary" device is the first on earth to have touch-screen only interface. Well it is not. Remote control manufacturers tried this many years ago and failed miserably. The jury is still out on iPhone and it is different from RC in that with RC you just have to look at the TV while you operate the device. With iPhone it is less critical for one can type looking at the keyboard (and without real keys you have to). However games, one hand operation, in car operation and general inconvenience (like when you need to answer a call) is a different matter. The POD part of the iPhone could be fine but the PHONE may not.
 

applefreak

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#4
You think that tactile feedback has anything to do with the original intention of a button interface? No. It's a side-effect of where technology was at the time and your perception of it being "important" is due to your being conditioned to expect it. People fear change, but change is inevitable. Just as the markets for news in print is fast declining, so will devices with physical buttons.
 

applefreak

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#5
You of course are implying that this "revolutionary" device is the first on earth to have touch-screen only interface. Well it is not. Remote control manufacturers tried this many years ago and failed miserably. The jury is still out on iPhone and it is different from RC in that with RC you just have to look at the TV while you operate the device. With iPhone it is less critical for one can type looking at the keyboard (and without real keys you have to). However games, one hand operation, in car operation and general inconvenience (like when you need to answer a call) is a different matter. The POD part of the iPhone could be fine but the PHONE may not.
Provide the quote where I termed the iPhone revolutionary or the first with a touch screen. Oh there isn't one? F- for reading comprehension.
 

lilo

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#6
Provide the quote where I said that you termed the iPhone revolutionary

Provide the quote where I termed the iPhone revolutionary or the first with a touch screen. Oh there isn't one? F- for reading comprehension.
And yes it looks like you are implying that iPhone is the first device with touch-screen only interface because you are dismissing all previous history of such devices. There is absolutely nothing different in the way you "press" buttons on iPhone from how you did it on touch-screen based PDAs (like Newton) or remote controls.
 

robhon

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#7
After only one week of pecking around on the iPhone keyboard I'm actually quite pleased with it. I continually mistype many things but the interpretation feature works fantastic. I just type away and don't worry about typing wrong. I just trust the system to get it right. When I look back at what I wrote it's almost always correct on every word. It's almost magical.

I would add that this is Apple's first product in this arena. I would expect that the keyboard functionality with improve greatly with a little time.
 

adseguy

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#8
that's a hilarious first post. I agree that tactile feedback isn't as important as all these critics in their 30's and 40's made I'd out to be. I should take a picture of my thumbs because they are almost freakishly huge and I have little problems typing on the keyboard. Tactile feedback is important since is gives us another sense out if the 2 we use already for the keyboard (visual AND hearing) as of now though I have little problems replying to email or even posting on this forum. Apple said it right when they just said trust the keyboard and it'll do the rest.
 

MadDog31

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#9
Yeah I don't care what anyone says, that first post is hilarious. I've come to find that the keyboard on the iPhone is awesome, and I'm already typing pretty darn fast I must say using two thumbs. To me, I'm able to type faster on this keyboard than I could on my sister's cell she has from Verizon (not sure of the model, it's the one that's a regular phone and then flips open horizontally). I tried typing on hers and my thumbs kept hitting 2-3 keys at a time. :-\

Anyways, that first post was great...thanks for making me laugh so early in my day...haha
 

applefreak

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#10
And yes it looks like you are implying that iPhone is the first device with touch-screen only interface because you are dismissing all previous history of such devices. There is absolutely nothing different in the way you "press" buttons on iPhone from how you did it on touch-screen based PDAs (like Newton) or remote controls.
Ah yes, like how the touchtone phone ignored all previous history of rotary dials. Get with the times. No need to fear, embrace it. You are witnessing the beginning of a sea change in mobile phone design where touch screens will replace physical keyboards in all the newest phones.

And please don't tell me you're comparing iPhone multitouch to a stylus pda or newton.
 

lilo

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#11
Bad analogy

Ah yes, like how the touchtone phone ignored all previous history of rotary dials. Get with the times, bud. No need to fear, embrace it.

And only a dullard compares iPhone multitouch to a stylus pda or newton.
Touchtone was different and better way todial than rotary dial. iPhone's touchscreen is not different in any way from other touch screens. It is a set of button pictures on a flat surfice (I know if it was made by Apple it should be different but it is not). Remote control did not have the smartness of iPhone keyboard but they did not need it - their buttons were full size (iPhone just compensates for being too small in that department).

PDAs can be used with and without a stylus. There are applications that can turn PDAs into remote controls (unlike iPhone, most PDAs have infrared interface) - with large buttons to be used without stylus.

I am not sure but it is probable that since iPhone uses capacitance-based touch screen it will not even work with stylus. If that is the case, you can not have games - like Solitaire on iPhone.

The keyboard on iPhone has does not use multi-touch. Multitouch on such a small screen is mostly a marketing gimmick. There is just one useful feature based on multitouch - zoom-in/out. Not much.
 

applefreak

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#13
Lilo, you do realize that "multitouch" is more than just a touch screen right? It's a highly sensitive touchscreen matched with proprietary software -- the latter of which is the most critical distinction here. The greatest touch screen in the world is nothing without great software to unleash its potential. Name me a single mobile phone or computing device that provides the same or better experience as iPhone's multitouch.

I think you should remove the power steering from your car to provide more tactile feedback for your driving experience.
 

spazzman90

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#14
If they can pull off solitare on an Ipod Nano with its tiny screen and limited interface, which works just fine I might add, I'm sure they can work out a version for the iPhone.

-Jeff
 

hutchensgd

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#16
The sense of touch is only one of our senses. I think this complaint is silly!

This is silly. Tactile feedback is important to humans, period. It would take millions of years for people to not need it (i.e. evolution time scale). That's why tactile feedback is coming to touch screens. The iPhone introduced visual feedback in place of tactile feedback and this is one of the reasons this works well. Imagine how much better this would be if/when Apple adds tactile feedback to their touch screens when the technology matures.
 

lilo

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#17
No it is not

Lilo, you do realize that "multitouch" is more than just a touch screen right?
It is just that - the screen can track more than one touch at a time. Older screens could not do this thereforee there simply was no need for a software to handle this. Now that the screens are available, companies will start utilizing the feature (here is a link to how Microsoft uses this technology in laptops - http://www.designverb.com/2007/06/21/microsoft-multi-touch-laptop/).

The screen itself BTW is not designed by Apple. I do not think that it is that difficult to create software to handle multi-touch.

More importantly, multi-touch has very limited use. Try to think of how you could use three fingers to do something useful :). It is unnatural. Even coordinating two fingers is somewhat of a challenge too. It might have more use when two hands are involved like in Microsoft's Multi-Touch 'Surface' Table (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,132346/article.html) - still creepy though.
 

lilo

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#18
We'll see

If they can pull off solitare on an Ipod Nano with its tiny screen and limited interface, which works just fine I might add, I'm sure they can work out a version for the iPhone.

-Jeff
I just do not see easy way for them to implement selection of a sub-stack of cards with a finger (accuracy is simply not there)
 

applefreak

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#19
It is just that - the screen can track more than one touch at a time. Older screens could not do this thereforee there simply was no need for a software to handle this. Now that the screens are available, companies will start utilizing the feature (here is a link to how Microsoft uses this technology in laptops - http://www.designverb.com/2007/06/21/microsoft-multi-touch-laptop/).

The screen itself BTW is not designed by Apple. I do not think that it is that difficult to create software to handle multi-touch.

More importantly, multi-touch has very limited use. Try to think of how you could use three fingers to do something useful :). It is unnatural. Even coordinating two fingers is somewhat of a challenge too. It might have more use when two hands are involved like in Microsoft's Multi-Touch 'Surface' Table (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,132346/article.html) - still creepy though.
Oh, so you are privy to the internal workings of the iPhone now? Hey Steve, this armchair computer engineer is out of work!

Yeah, the iPhone is so unnatural that is why it didn't come with instructions. Being naturally intuitive had nothing to do with it, right? You're talking out your ass now.

And quit bringing up vaporware. It only makes you look more foolish.

I just do not see easy way for them to implement selection of a sub-stack of cards with a finger (accuracy is simply not there)
And here you prove you've never used an iPhone. Pretty sad that a microsoft fanboy like yourself is lurking on an iPhone forum. What's wrong, can't afford one?
 

hutchensgd

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#20
I see you have made another "friend" today! Nice job!

It is just that - the screen can track more than one touch at a time. Older screens could not do this thereforee there simply was no need for a software to handle this. Now that the screens are available, companies will start utilizing the feature (here is a link to how Microsoft uses this technology in laptops - http://www.designverb.com/2007/06/21/microsoft-multi-touch-laptop/).

The screen itself BTW is not designed by Apple. I do not think that it is that difficult to create software to handle multi-touch.

More importantly, multi-touch has very limited use. Try to think of how you could use three fingers to do something useful :). It is unnatural. Even coordinating two fingers is somewhat of a challenge too. It might have more use when two hands are involved like in Microsoft's Multi-Touch 'Surface' Table (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,132346/article.html) - still creepy though.