"Why Are we not allowed to Complain?"

erroneous

New Member
Bronze
Jun 23, 2007
107
0
0
#1
I was totally taken a-back by the last post, "posted" by Kabeyun
regarding the locking of the thread about "Why are we not able to complain?"

I looked back at what post he/she may have contributed to with-in the thread, and felt kind of "empty".

To post exactly what the last statement he/she posted, it read:

"...OK, bickering children, this thread will now be locked. Did nobody read my post?

Selected disciplinary action will follow.

-K..."

Perplexed, and somewhat embarrassed that a statement like this
has been made by a moderator of this forum.

I'm going to call your bluff Kabeyun.

What has been published in the thread "you" have locked, that
eludes to some kind of disarray?

Am I going to be disciplined as a result of expressing my
freedom of thought?

And in what way are you going to do that?
Just "DELETE ME From this web site?

I respect everyone here as realistically and practical as
a person would anywhere.

Yet wonder what credentials you've (In this case the moderator, Kaybeyun have been given to dictate what expression
of free thought takes place here.)

Do the operators of this forum grant permission to
arbitrary "police smiths"... to dictate the amateur "word smiths"
of people like you, and I... in regard to a mere product?

Shed some light here.

Perhaps the title of the thread should have originally said,
"We're not allowed to complain." (?)

Hey, I'm throwing it back at you.

Signed,

John

And still totally enjoying the iPhone.
One of the first to purchase it!
 

chris

Administrator
Administrator
Jun 10, 2006
11,812
1,778
113
Long Island, NY
#2
I was totally taken a-back by the last post, "posted" by Kabeyun
regarding the locking of the thread about "Why are we not able to complain?"

I looked back at what post he/she may have contributed to with-in the thread, and felt kind of "empty".

To post exactly what the last statement he/she posted, it read:

"...OK, bickering children, this thread will now be locked. Did nobody read my post?

Selected disciplinary action will follow.

-K..."

Perplexed, and somewhat embarrassed that a statement like this
has been made by a moderator of this forum.

I'm going to call your bluff Kabeyun.

What has been published in the thread "you" have locked, that
eludes to some kind of disarray?

Am I going to be disciplined as a result of expressing my
freedom of thought?

And in what way are you going to do that?
Just "DELETE ME From this web site?

I respect everyone here as realistically and practical as
a person would anywhere.

Yet wonder what credentials you've (In this case the moderator, Kaybeyun have been given to dictate what expression
of free thought takes place here.)

Do the operators of this forum grant permission to
arbitrary "police smiths"... to dictate the amateur "word smiths"
of people like you, and I... in regard to a mere product?

Shed some light here.

Perhaps the title of the thread should have originally said,
"We're not allowed to complain." (?)

Hey, I'm throwing it back at you.

Signed,

John

And still totally enjoying the iPhone.
One of the first to purchase it!
Kabeyun is the only moderator here outside of myself. It's not paid and is strictly volunteer. Without guys like him, it would be extremely difficult to monitor and "police" activity here at EIP. I wouldn't say that a "double standard" exists, but rather we do what we can to keep things consistent.

This forum has rules. These are in place to keep this a friendly, knowledgeable discussion about the iPhone. Dissenting opinions are welcome, but not if the sole intention is to strictly bash the iPhone. That particular thread had questionable content and some foul langauge, some of which was edited out. Censorship? Hardly. When members start calling someone an idiot and a dumbass, it's time for us to lock down a thread and hand out some type of penalty.

FWIW, the proper way to handle this would have been a PM to the moderator or myself. We're both very approachable and our goal is to work with members on creating the best possible forum experience. Having created two VERY successful forums built on similar principles, I believe K- did handle this correctly. For his great work, he has to see threads like this "calling his bluff". Furthermore, having spent a few years working with him on Everything Treo, he's the first one to question a product's features. No device is perfect and it's completely natural to want improvements.

That being said, I would think this is the type of forum folks would want to be associated with. If not, please feel free to send me a PM and I'll respect your wishes.

-Chris
 

Kabeyun

Member
Silver
Jan 10, 2007
665
0
16
Northeast US
#3
You asked, so here it is:
I'm going to call your bluff Kabeyun.
I wasn't bluffing. The thread was locked for voilation of the forum rules, including profanity and member-to-member flames. If I were really interested in censorship, I would have deleted the thread instead, wouldn't I? Instead, I let the posts stand, and edited out the offensive langauge.
What has been published in the thread "you" have locked, that eludes to some kind of disarray?
Here is an example, which I deleted prior to your involvement:
"the above post is endemic of the rabid fanboy dipshittery that makes the iPhone the questionable success it is."​
In addition, the forum had taken on a tone that we don't condone here. While complaints are encouraged (yes, encouraged), it should be in a constructive context. Chris didn't work so hard to establish EI.com only to have it degenerate into a site where people complain and complain about shortcomings. Just as you wouldn't join an archery club if you hated archery, we don't feel that people should post at EI.com if they hate the iPhone.

Some of the posters in the locked thread had also established a reputation (reported to both me and Chris in the past) for being consistent iPhone bashers, often rude, and we' don't want that here. Similar posts of theirs in the locked thread were also their last straw. You probably didn't know that either. Pattern recognition is part of what we do in establishing the status of a questionable post. If you've posted 294 times and are generally helpful, you've got a lot more credibility than if you call the iPhone "useless vanityware," for example, in your first 4 posts.

You are more than welcome to read my reply early in the thread you're questioning. In it, I described that it's a difficult task to decide when someone's being reasonable and when someone's being too negative for a site created for people who are actiually excited about the iPhone. I and especially Chris take that responsibility seriously. Since I encouraged debate and in fact initially agreed with the OP who was later disciplined, it's clear that nobody here is censoring anyone. People weaken terms like "censorship" and "freedom of thought" when they apply them to juvenile namecalling and a supposed right to do so in someone else's e-space. I was particularly bothered because much of the namecalling and bickering came after my above post about trolling and flaming.
Am I going to be disciplined as a result of expressing my freedom of thought?
No. You haven't voilated the forum rules. Although a bit confrontational with the site's management, you aren't hostile or foul-mouthed. However, I will say that the proper way for this sort of feedback is direct communication with me or Chris, rather than to start a new thread (which will be locked shortly, since EI.com's forums aren't here to discuss my implementation of the site's posting policies).
Yet wonder what credentials you've (In this case the moderator, Kaybeyun have been given to dictate what expression
of free thought takes place here.)
As you said, my credentials are simple: I am a moderator in this site. That's it. I was granted that privilege because I have been working with Chris for a long time, have established a rapport, and demonstrated that I am reasonable, articulate, responsible, (generally) level-headed, and have some working knowledge of the devices to which these forums are dedicated.
Hey, I'm throwing it back at you.
Since you asked, I've told you the rationale behind the actions taken. I hope you're satisfied with my response.
And still totally enjoying the iPhone.
One of the first to purchase it!
Outstanding!

-K


To OJsakila:

There are almost 10,000 members and over 75,000 posts at EI.com. There are exactly two people with moderation priveleges here, Chris and me. If you think we can be aware of every post, get real. If you saw an offensive that post slipped through the cracks, report it to one of us and we'll deal with it if it needs to be dealt with. Chris and I have dedicated much time behind the scenes trying to hammer out the policies here, balancing tolerance and respect with enforcement. Stop complaining about "double-standards" and please post something helpful somewhere else. Thank you.

-K
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hoits2000

Member
Bronze
Mar 15, 2007
360
1
18
#4
I would like to be a moderator.