Apple swapped my brand new 4S for a refurb

Locutus

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In my opinion refurbished iPhone is better then new, they did all point inpection on it, and its great...they don't send it back to china they are checked by Apple Tech here in US
A lot of people are of that opinion and thats cool, but not everyone shares that opinion. I, for one, am of the opinion that refurbs should only be offered to customers who have owned their iPhones for a period of time over a minimum of 30 days.
I've had my iPhone 4 for over a year. If something gies bad now and I have to exchange it, I would expect they'd replace it with a refurb. I absolutely would jot have a problem with that because my phone is no longer new.



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JDem

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In my opinion refurbished iPhone is better then new, they did all point inpection on it, and its great...they don't send it back to china they are checked by Apple Tech here in US
I know you said in your opinion, and I agree there are merits to re-manned or refurbed units as a replacements, but (in my opinion) after a time period where every effort has been made to give the consumer what they originally paid for.

If a device presents with a defect, especially a known and acknowledged defect from the manufacturer, then that unit should be replaced with new, not one that had to be rebuilt. I know it has been said before, but if generic manufacturer A attaches a value to a device that costs $299 new and $175 or lower to a rebuilt unit, then that assessed value should remain constant!

If the vendor does not place the same value on a "refurb" as they do with "new" at point of sale then they cannot expect a consumer to place the same value on it as a viable replacement for a device they just paid full price for but that does not work through no fault of their own.

I realize I am beating a dead and buried horse here, but there is a difference between what is "technically" a viable replacement vs. what is financially and aesthetically a viable replacement. If we believe the contrary, then what we are effectively saying is that buying a new piece of consumer electronics is a lottery and you only get one chance at a new device. If said device happens to fail? Well then, you are out of luck Mr. consumer, here is one we re-built, that'll have to suffice! I am sorry if you are ok with that, because I am not!
 
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Europa

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Whether or not I have an understanding of the term refurb isn't the point at all and honestly I don't really care. Arguing that point is really silly.

My point is if I'm exchanging my iPhone within a 30 day period because of defects, I expect to receive another NEW iPhone, not a refurb. That doesn't require an understanding of what a refurb is, it's just common sense.

As a consumer paying for a new product, getting a refurb instead is unacceptable as I didn't pay for MOST of the parts to be new. I paid for ALL of the parts to be new.


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I agree with what you're saying, but you said you didn't want a phone that was dropped by the previous owner so I wanted point out that it doesn't work like that. There is a difference between a previously owned device and one that is rebuilt with mostly new parts. This point is neither silly or irrelevant.

Were your phones less than a month old when you had them replaced with new ones?
 

Locutus

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I agree with what you're saying, but you said you didn't want a phone that was dropped by the previous owner so I wanted point out that it doesn't work like that. There is a difference between a previously owned device and one that is rebuilt with mostly new parts. This point is neither silly or irrelevant.

Were your phones less than a month old when you had them replaced with new ones?
Well actually, whether a refurb is previously owned or rebuilt IS irrelevant to the point I was making since whatever is considered a refurb is undesirable to me within a certain period of time after the initial purchase.

And yeah, if you really think about it, the whole argument is a bit silly. However.......since I neither work for Apple nor have any sort of REAL inside connection to what Apple considers a refurb, my speculations on the topic are nothing more than here say. So I will concede to your apparent expert knowledge on the topic.

Now, with that being settled, let's move on.
To answer your other question, I had to return mine a little less than a month after I purchased it because the camera wasn't operating properly. The genius helping tested my iPhone and determined they should just replace it. I told him that I wanted to make sure that I was getting a new iPhone and he was cool about it. He unwrapped a brand new one right in front if me. Excellent customer service in my book.
With my wife's iPhone 4, the sim card kept coming unseated. We took it back within a week of having purchased it, showed the problem to the genius, and they again determined that it should be replaced. Once again, they brought out a brand new unwrapped iPhone as a replacement.

Look, I get that I may have over-simplified the true definition of a refurbished iPhone AND I understand that for a lot of people, a refurb is just fine.
I'm simply not one of them. For me refurb does not equal new. New is what I paid for and new is what I will get.



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VOLS34

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Maybe you got a new because it was all they had. I'm sure new phone inventory is greater than refurbished. Maybe it was at the associate's discretion or they took into account the length of time you had the phone. It's not reasonable to not expect a refurb if you return a phone after a certain time period. If you manage to get a new one even better. It's not like if you refuse a refurb you're gonna win a court case when the warranty is clearly stated. That being said Apple usually does more than bends over backwards to satisfy their customers.
 

Locutus

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Maybe you got a new because it was all they had. I'm sure new phone inventory is greater than refurbished. Maybe it was at the associate's discretion or they took into account the length of time you had the phone. It's not reasonable to not expect a refurb if you return a phone after a certain time period. If you manage to get a new one even better. It's not like if you refuse a refurb you're gonna win a court case when the warranty is clearly stated. That being said Apple usually does more than bends over backwards to satisfy their customers.
Within a 30 day period, it is perfectly reasonable.
I wouldn't have to "win a court case" if I decided i didn't want a refurb. If the Apple store was to refuse to give me a new iPhone as a replacement for the new iPhone I was returning, I'd simply just get my money back and buy it NEW somewhere else. No court case needed.
You can qualify my experiences with "maybes" all day long, but it all boils down to simple common sense. That Apple store isn't going to want to lose a customer over something so minor as a simple exchange. As you said, they bend over backwards for their customers.



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iP5

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There is a difference between a previously owned device and one that is rebuilt with mostly new parts...
I believe you are saying that a refurb unit is mostly new parts.

If a refurb is mostly new then why go through the expense of; creating a service/repair businesss unit, as well as the handling to move devices back and forth from the Store and service centers?

Why not just open a retail unit and offer that as a replacement. You have highly skilled geniusii onsite with diagnostic software that can keep things honest. Keeping or giving the accessories is not even substantial as again, cost wise the accessories are somewhere under $24. To simplify things, lets say the accessories are kept, repackaged and sold as new. The most cost effective way being to stock empty packaging at the Store.

Back to the idea of opening new units as replacements. The goodwill and PR value alone, from this type of service policy would easily out compete a service system using mostly new product but getting less than new credit for the effort.

What's the cost of operating a service infrastructure that provides mostly new replacements? The model of mostly new would be operating at a significant loss compared to my suggested model of recycling components from a pool of failed at production and used from service trades. Such additional losses would then add pressure on Apple's other businesss units in delivering the profit performance Apple is famous for.

Mostly new simply makes no sense to me. If you have some substantial source supporting the idea that a refurb is mostly new, please cite it. :)

Thanks and sorry for continuing the debate. As stated earlier, I'm not saying that a refurb is horrible just that it's substantially worth less than new. You're saying that it's substantially similar and if I recall from your post in other threads, in some ways better than new. I think this is the crux of our debate?
 
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Europa

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Well actually, whether a refurb is previously owned or rebuilt IS irrelevant to the point I was making since whatever is considered a refurb is undesirable to me within a certain period of time after the initial purchase.

And yeah, if you really think about it, the whole argument is a bit silly. However.......since I neither work for Apple nor have any sort of REAL inside connection to what Apple considers a refurb, my speculations on the topic are nothing more than here say. So I will concede to your apparent expert knowledge on the topic.

Now, with that being settled, let's move on.
To answer your other question, I had to return mine a little less than a month after I purchased it because the camera wasn't operating properly. The genius helping tested my iPhone and determined they should just replace it. I told him that I wanted to make sure that I was getting a new iPhone and he was cool about it. He unwrapped a brand new one right in front if me. Excellent customer service in my book.
With my wife's iPhone 4, the sim card kept coming unseated. We took it back within a week of having purchased it, showed the problem to the genius, and they again determined that it should be replaced. Once again, they brought out a brand new unwrapped iPhone as a replacement.

Look, I get that I may have over-simplified the true definition of a refurbished iPhone AND I understand that for a lot of people, a refurb is just fine.
I'm simply not one of them. For me refurb does not equal new. New is what I paid for and new is what I will get.



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Again, I agree that it should be new if it is found to be defective within the exchange period.

I was just clarifying something else.
 
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Locutus

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Again, I agree that it should be new if it is found to be defective within the exchange period.

I was just trying to clarify something else.
It's all good.
:)


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