Why aren't we allowed to complain?

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Tinman

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A more apt analogy would be: Buying a $110,000 luxury car and find that it's missing things like, ABS, heated seats, and MP3 integration. Things you'd expect to get for the money you paid.
An educated consumer would not assume anything is included without checking first--especially on a $110,000 vehicle.


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Mike
 

prmdbr

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An educated consumer would not assume anything is included without checking first--especially on a $110,000 vehicle.


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Mike
So then, the logical conclusion here is to always assume that Apple will provide the 'LEAST' amount of value despite the pricing.
 

crane98

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An educated consumer would not assume anything is included without checking first--especially on a $110,000 vehicle.


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Mike
LMAO. Walk into a Mercedes dealership and look at an S600. Ask if it has air conditioning and see what kind of look you get. They'd probably just tell you to leave because anyone that would ask such a stupid question probably can't afford to spend 150k on a car.
 

Tinman

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LMAO. Walk into a Mercedes dealership and look at an S600. Ask if it has air conditioning and see what kind of look you get. They'd probably just tell you to leave because anyone that would ask such a stupid question probably can't afford to spend 150k on a car.
Yet another non sequiter from crane98. Why am I not surprised?


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Mike
 

andy cohen

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why aren't we allowed to complain

I have never had an Apple product besides an I Pod. I am a heavy power user, use 6000 minutes a month on my phone, and have had every Blackberry model ever made, with the latest being a Pearl on T Mobile. I thought it was so far above every other phone, and it was.

When the I Phone came out I was very apprehensive but was intrigued by the demo at the Apple STORE. Then I got one a few weeks ago for my girlfriend. After five minutes I was hooked, and bought one the next day. I was nervous to just switch over right away, so just got a temporary At & T number and used the Blackberry and the iPhoneboth for a few days.

While the I Phone is not perfect, it blows away the Blackberry in almost every way and it is joy to own and use and here is why it is so much better:

The things I am so impressed with are:
1. Love the e mails showing the first few lines of the e mail
2. The Ipod of course
3. The ability to save 50 favorite phone numbers
4. The way the SMS's are displayed
5. The great internet access
6. The standard headphones give you unbelievable sound quality
7. Camera and photo management is great
8. Visible voice mail is a real time saver
9. Great technical support
10. A T & T network works fine

It really is a three in one device-I no longer carry my camera or my ipod-gave it to my kid.

Of course there are things I would like improved, and below is my list.
But that does not take away from the fact that the I Phone is a revolutionary, easy to use device that so many things better than the Blackberry on the first try, that I am confident that Apple will continue to make it better.

Here are my suggestions for future improvements:

1. Ability to delete more than one e mail at a time
2. Adding video to the camera
3. Adding zoom lens to the camera
4. Adding flash to the camera
5. More megapixels
6. Adding GPS
7. Radio-both am and fm
8. Over the air TV like slingbox
9. Removable battery
10. Easier access to address book. It is too difficult with the alphabet so small
12. Voice recorder
13. Stereo Bluetooth headphones
14. Make it so I can download my memos from Outlook
15. Make the horizontal keyboard work in any field
16. Put all five phone icons on the homescreen right above the bottom four icons so you do not have to hit the phone icon first to get to them. That is a pain! Also make then in color as they are too hard to read with the exception of the voicemail icon which is in color already. There is room to put them there.

Aside from short battery life which really seems to be due to my heavy phone use, it can be manged by aggressive charging in car and office, and the positives so outweigh the negatives that I really have no regrets. Next I am going to switch all my home and office PC's to macs!
 

Hondamaker

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A more apt analogy would be: Buying a $110,000 luxury car and find that it's missing things like, ABS, heated seats, and MP3 integration. Things you'd expect to get for the money you paid.
No, because you look those things up before you buy the 'car'. You see what features it has/doesn't have and base your purchase on that. You assume and you look like a ******, like crane and his 'reasonable assumption'. Anyone who pays a lot of money for something and simply assumes it has the features they want is just plain simple-minded. IMHO.
 

crane98

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No, because you look those things up before you buy the 'car'. You see what features it has/doesn't have and base your purchase on that. You assume and you look like a dumbass, like crane and his 'reasonable assumption'. Anyone who pays a lot of money for something and simply assumes it has the features they want is just plain simple-minded. IMHO.
Like I said, go into a Mercedes dealership and ask if the new S600 has power seats or air conditioning, you'll like like an idiot. When a company hires an accountant do they ask if he can add or subtract, or do they assume he knows how to do these basic things because he has an Accounting degree?

Based on your logic, nobody should ever make an assumption about anything. So I'm assuming every time you get into your car you search the bottom of it to make sure there's not a bomb on it, because after all, assuming your car is safe to drive is stupid, right?

If you buy a 600 dollar phone, it should be a safe assumption than you can send a picture on it.

You people worship Apple so much you wouldn't complain about this stupid phone if you had to enter a 50 digit code just to make a call. Give me a break. Do you wipe Steve Job's ass?
 

prmdbr

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No, because you look those things up before you buy the 'car'. You see what features it has/doesn't have and base your purchase on that. You assume and you look like a dumbass, like crane and his 'reasonable assumption'. Anyone who pays a lot of money for something and simply assumes it has the features they want is just plain simple-minded. IMHO.
I'll tell you what's simple-minded: defending the the indefensible reality that Apple has far undelivered on a product. This has left folks like you to rationalize the purchase instead of objectively looking at what you actually got for your money. You see, I've done this. Which is why I can hold the dialogue on why the iPhone, in it's current state, is pretty crappy.

You're defending an argument of value and functionality by trying to deride my decision not research the product before buying. Let's just say that the iPhone is not a house, its a product that exists in a class of products that was derived back when Apple was still getting back on its feet.

Apple's current rock star image does not give them the right to 'redefine' what users have come to expect as basic functionality under the guise of 'innovation'. Take away the touch screen, and the iPhone is just another 125 dollar gadget.. if that.

pps - and no, I'm not aliasing myself. I don't know crane, however, if our points-of-view are similar then we are both suitable to our causes; we're both well met.
 

gijohn

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Apple's current rock star image does not give them the right to 'redefine' what users have come to expect as basic functionality under the guise of 'innovation'. Take away the touch screen, and the iPhone is just another 125 dollar gadget.. if that.
prmdbr - I sent you a PM. Maybe you haven't seen it. Getting back on track to your original post, I asked a few questions (directed to you) in post #5. Pretty simple actually and wonder if you've had time to think about the answers?

(just trying to make an informed buying decision for myself)
 

GuyFawkes

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I would have to say that if you didn't know what the iPhone was missing when you bought it then you didn't:
1. read any of the reviews, or news articles
2. did bother to pay attention to the Apple ads
3. Didn't bother to take the iPhone tour
4. Didn't watch the keynote address when the iPhone was announced and demonstrated.
Pretty simple. So if that is the case, why should we who did our homework be expected to listen to whining and complaining about what the iPhone cannot do that was never announced, or the missing features that were never talked about, or the capabilities that were never discussed? Frankly many of us are tired of hearing about how you were lied to, cheated, or worse.

It is fine to voice complaints about things that were advertised and don't work as expected. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. That kind of focus and attention to the details will hopefully get Apple working on the fixes for what is already included with the iPhone. We all want copy and paste, cut and paste, and context menus that allow us to access more features. I want the calendar to give me options about where to sync it, and allow me to sync with online calendaring from Google and Yahoo. The stocks and weather tools need some serious improvement. I want the existing email tools to include the mail filtering, and more controls for my email on the phone instead of having to go to the online provider. I want a real bookmarks system that works instead of the horrible one that comes with Safari on the iPhone today. These are things that seem pretty reasonable to me.

If your angry, unhappy, hate the phone, cannot use it... Then you probably should get something that suites you better. You need a proven mature product and not something cutting edge with all of the growing pains of a brand new product. The iPhone is new and has a lot of growing to do. Come back in a year or two and look around. You will probably see most of what your looking for then. The platform appears to be solid, and lots of room for growth that should quickly out pace those other competing products in their current form.

Apple delivered what they promised. This can and will get better. The promise of more great things to come is equally as promising as the product they have already delivered. If we don't have some advances and improvements by the holidays then I think you will start to hear even the fanboys grow impatient. So for those of us who are willing to stick around will soon find out.

Good luck with your phone and whatever you might decide to do.

GuyFawkes
 

SmartAlx

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Ive been around EIP from the beginning pretty much (a few weeks before the phone was released) and i can tell you that the fannoys have been around the whole time. The trolls didn't come around until a time after the phpne was released. And fanboyism is a form of troll.

Did you notice how the spell check didn't work on my last paragraph? Yeah, spellcheck works grrrrrreeeeat!

The OP isn't saying that Apple won't make improvements on future phones. He's saying that it looks like they won't upgrade the current phone much. For us early adopters, we are stuck using this very well designed FIVE YEAR OLD device. Seriously, had Apple released the phone 5 years ago, how much different would it be from the one in our hands right now?
 

kdarling

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Frankly, some people are immature. They believe their watch, clothes, car, and/or cell phone define who they are. Therefore they feel they must defend their choice, no matter what. And insult anyone who disagrees.

Reminds me of the difference between the newer Land Rover and older Jaguar XJ-S groups I belonged to.

The Land Rover owners on that particular forum acted very much like some iPhone owners. If someone said, hey my $50K Rover is leaking oil all over my driveway, then the other owners replied "OH well you should've known they weren't that reliable, and if you don't like it, you should not have bought it". Yes, just as stupid sounding as here sometimes. Basically defending the indefensible.

OTOH, the XJ-S owners had a tremendous sense of humor. If someone said, "What? An $65K car and it has no glovebox light ? What the heck?" Well, then *everyone* laughed together and said, yep, isn't that the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard of? Okay, so here's how you add one with parts from Radio Shack...

The difference is night and day. And usually divides along age groups. When you get older and have had lots of Things, you realize that Things aren't what life is all about.
Friends, family, children are. Things are just... things.
 

Hondamaker

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Like I said, go into a Mercedes dealership and ask if the new S600 has power seats or air conditioning, you'll like like an idiot. When a company hires an accountant do they ask if he can add or subtract, or do they assume he knows how to do these basic things because he has an Accounting degree?

Based on your logic, nobody should ever make an assumption about anything. So I'm assuming every time you get into your car you search the bottom of it to make sure there's not a bomb on it, because after all, assuming your car is safe to drive is stupid, right?

If you buy a 600 dollar phone, it should be a safe assumption than you can send a picture on it.

You people worship Apple so much you wouldn't complain about this stupid phone if you had to enter a 50 digit code just to make a call. Give me a break. Do you wipe Steve Job's ass?
Yeah. I wipe Steve Job's ass. Brilliant riposte.
 

erroneous

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This is one of those great threads filled with passion, anger, wisdom, humor, and great opinion.

Hence, a Forum.

I'm enjoying all of the rather detailed thought that has gone into
some of the posts here.

I'm smiling at all the heated "hate" here for what is merely a thing.

As kdarling has reminded some of us willing to comprehend such
a concept:

"...The difference is night and day. And usually divides along age
groups. When you get older and have had lots of Things, you
realize that Things aren't what life is all about.
Friends, family, children are. Things are just... things."

I can totally relate to the above, and appreciate seeing it
posted here once in the while.

The analogy of the expensive vehicles was funny as well,
because it reminded me of when I bought my very first
new car at 19-years-old. A 1978 Jeep CJ-5 with a V-8 engine.

It was a death machine on wheels, and I loved it.

It was cold and drafty in the winter.
It was bouncy, and noisy on long road trips.
You smelled like exhaust after riding in it.
(Had headers on it.)

Anything you left in it could be easily taken, or stolen from it.
No way of locking it up.

Yet, there was a quiet sense of total independence knowing
you could maneuver it into places other vehicles simply
could not attempt.

So, in a way, I compare this iPhone with all of it's menial
short comings to my old Jeep.

The cool thing about the iPhone though, is its functionality
of being expanded upon.

It really is a hand-held computer with a screen.
And that's mainly why I purchased it.
The possibilities of the device being opened up
for other applications is quite obvious as time, and circumstances
unfold.

It could replace an order book a wait staff has in hand
at a restaurant for lame instance.
(An icon representing different menu items for example.)

Can you see an icon with a picture of french fries?
~snickering~~~

It really is a spring board for potentially many kinds of
hand-held applications only one can imagine at the moment.

The fact that it's a phone is a nice plus, but the web feature
is how I've been using it most.

While at work for instance, I'm able to look-up parts break-down
drawings from manufacturers web sites.

The thought of having a bulky lap-top in hand simply wouldn't work.

The theme with the original post here though highlights that we all
have opinion about a "thing" that either works great for us,
or is nothing but a piece of junk.

I would hazard a guess that regardless of whether we like the
product, or despise it. The real winner in all of this, are the
on-line service providers suppling the access we all have to this
discussion. For we're keeping their equipment in demand,
and fueling it on a minute, by minute frenzy.

And you've got something to occupy your time as well in
expressing and sharing your opinion.

That's pretty cool when you think about it.

Great forum!

John
 

ColsTiger

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Don't let the replies bother you. Many, many iPhone early adopters are very loyal Apple fans. Can't you tell by the anti-Windows remarks in every iPhone forum?;)
 

vansouza

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But you should have

So you KNOWINGLY paid $600 for a phone that doesn't have

picture messaging/receiving
voice recording
voice dialing
ringtones
video
aim
battery has to be sent to Apple
no cut and paste for browser

I was unaware of most of this, mainly because I never imagined they would release such an inferior product when it was suppose to be "revolutionary". I made a reasonable assumption. I would have never bought the phone in the first place if I had known it would be missing so many basic features. To me, if you knew all of this and still bought the phone, it was a pretty stupid thing to do.

And don't say that my decision was stupid because I didn't research my purchase. If you buy a new Mercedes, you're pretty much expecting that it comes with air conditioning and power seats. I never imagined a phone with so much hype would be missing these features. The phone is a piece of crap and I'm glad I finally sold mine.
You should have imagined, at least done a bit of research before plunking down what to me is a lot of money. I knew the limitations and accepted them ... to me the limitations do not limit the iPhone one bit. Thank God we live in a country where we can agree to disagree.
 
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